Mac: 00:00

Yeah. What up? What up? What up? Anime heads?

Jacci: 00:04

Yeah. Into it. Yeah. If you go to church, yeah. Get into it.

Mac: 00:08

Yeah. Jackie is on her, Doja Cat fix right now. Welcome all our anime heads. And if you happen to be an anime head NFL fan, draft night is tonight. So hopefully your team does well in the draft, but kind of in honor of draft night, we decided to hold a draft of our own in a sense and select our top three villains for each of us and kind of explain to you why they made our list.

Mac: 00:41

And if you would like to participate and tell us why, or if we missed anybody, I suppose, feel free to jump on here, drop them in the comments and let us know what you think. But for now, we'll go ahead and hit you with this beautiful intro, and then we'll get into the show.

Jacci: 01:01

The following is a presentation of the Dot Healing Podcast Network, reminding you to always question the answers.

Mac: 01:23

You stumbled on another podcast. Of course, you're right, but let me tell you about the contrast. It's really different. Not an accent from the Comcast. We cover anime today and on the times past.

Mac: 01:33

Listen and learn in that order then replay. Be entertained by Mac, Jackie, and EJ. Three hoes doing way more than the most proven. You can pet a lion, but it's all under your roof. Originals and sequels, the newbies and the ecchicos.

Mac: 01:46

The world's up in flames to the ones more peaceful. The weapons of the shoe toad. Manga Najuku, Yes. Yes, y'all. Episode 14, Eat The Cake anime.

Mac: 02:35

Obviously, I am the homie Mac, AKA your boy. Joined always by my homie EJ. And then of course, on the booking of that, Jackie. How are you guys doing? How was your time?

Mac: 02:48

I know it's been a while since our last episode, but what you guys been up to?

Jacci: 02:53

Eric, you go first.

EJ: 02:55

Working on the TTRPG for That Feeling Podcast Network. Had a good first run with everybody and still working on a lot of that stuff.

Mac: 03:08

That is true. We're due to go on this Saturday too over on Patreon. Shameless plug. Knox Eterna over there. And then Jackie, a lot of moves on your end.

Mac: 03:22

If you don't follow her on, well actually I don't think you shared it on your social media, but.

Jacci: 03:27

I don't think so.

Mac: 03:28

She's over there controlling Russian fighters trying to shoot nonplane. Meow. She she got a little my god.

Jacci: 03:38

I'm the enemy. I

EJ: 03:40

am ready now. I I feel safer that that kitty cats made an appearance. Yep.

Mac: 03:45

I'll never Whatever

Jacci: 03:48

they say.

Mac: 03:49

Or whatever they do. Yeah.

Jacci: 03:51

I did I sat my first mission today, learning how to be a Baron controller.

Mac: 03:56

Okay.

Jacci: 03:57

It's been a while since I sucked that bad at my job.

Mac: 04:01

Oh.

Jacci: 04:02

had no idea what I was doing, man. They say weird cum. And then tomorrow is my first live mission. So

Mac: 04:10

Oh, yeah?

Jacci: 04:11

See how that goes.

Mac: 04:12

Yeah. You're ready to go, though.

EJ: 04:13

I think got this.

Jacci: 04:14

Yeah. You can

EJ: 04:15

find just gonna be a step in a different direction for a little bit, but then

Jacci: 04:21

Yeah. Dude, it's crazy because they just talk so much on the radio. Like, these nerds literally need to be handheld by, like, a controller and told where to look, what to do. And I'm not used to that. I'm used to, like, freaking oh, no.

Jacci: 04:37

Who'd they pick?

Mac: 04:38

Another receiver. I swear to god lord. Anyway, I'm sorry.

Jacci: 04:43

Panthers pick is in. Willie is disappointed.

Mac: 04:49

I'm guessing the BM. That's normal. This is normal for this time of year for your boy. So

EJ: 04:55

so the passing game isn't where you feel like they need the help.

Mac: 04:58

No. Defense was like, second to last. No pressure on the back.

Jacci: 05:05

That sucks.

Mac: 05:06

All of these all of these pass rushers available. I'm thinking we're getting Jayla Walk from from Georgia, but never mind. Anyway, happy thoughts, guys. Let's talk about happy stuff. Happy thoughts.

Jacci: 05:19

Happy, happy thoughts. But, yeah, anyways, just be working. Be working a lot, and now I'm on the enemy side and learning that and being a being a senior enlisted leader.

Mac: 05:31

Oh, SEL life.

Jacci: 05:34

Yeah. Learning all that.

EJ: 05:37

Responsibility.

Jacci: 05:39

Responsibility. Big responsibility.

EJ: 05:41

The enigma makes sense.

Jacci: 05:44

Oh, Matt.

Mac: 05:47

Yeah, it's been a It's been a while, but we're back now. Like we said, we're talking our top three villains. We'll probably throw it at honorable mention in there as well. But as always, if you are listening, if you are watching, we appreciate you guys. Feel free to come through, Drop your favorite baddies in the comments, and, you know, we'll get to them and talk about them as well.

Mac: 06:09

But

EJ: 06:10

Absolutely.

Mac: 06:11

For now, who would like to start off talking about I guess this would be their number three pick for Number three. Oh. The villain. Who we got?

EJ: 06:23

I say Jackie goes. Ladies first. Show us some evil.

Jacci: 06:28

I didn't rank them.

EJ: 06:30

No. Just pick the one that you would put as the your third pick.

Jacci: 06:34

The last let's see. I did rank them by pettiness. I'm not gonna lie. Pettiness. Thank you.

Jacci: 06:41

I did, man. I realized as I was doing research, was like, damn. I'm really picking all the villains that are pet tea.

EJ: 06:49

Uh-huh.

Jacci: 06:49

Okay. I'll say my number three pick is gonna be old dude that I got here behind me, Naraku from Inuyasha for all my people that may or may not be watching this that old school, you stay up until either 11PM or 03:00 in the morning and

EJ: 07:14

Yes.

Jacci: 07:15

Yeah. All the memories.

Mac: 07:18

It's a vibe.

Jacci: 07:18

But anyways, I'll just do a quick, like, synopsis about this dude and talk about why I think this man is is super petty and why I think he's a huge villain. So if if y'all haven't seen any Yasha, he's he's just the main villain. There's there's other villains, but he's the main guy. There's no like other underlying villains. He's the end goal and by the time the show finishes like that, it's like who they go to battle basically.

Jacci: 07:46

But this dude started off as a human bandit named Onigumo who was like doing a lot of crazy shit, killing people, stealing things, whatever. He gets burned badly and he ends up getting saved by this priestess named Keikyo and he falls in love with her. Right? Go figure. Well, he learns that Keikyo is protecting this thing called the Shikon jewel that's supposed to grant you any wishes.

Jacci: 08:15

And he's like, I want that because I want to be super strong and healed so that way I can make Kikyo mine, but also take control of the Shikon jewel because he's a Greek motherfucker. So

EJ: 08:28

Sounds like a son of man.

Jacci: 08:29

So realizes he's not gonna be able to get the Shikon ju's jewel, so he decides to make a deal with a demon, and he ends up absorbing a bunch of demons into himself. And then alas, he becomes this guy, Naraku. Okay? Naraku is now like a new being, but he still has Onigumo's heart. So he still has feelings for Kikyo.

Jacci: 08:55

So even though he still has feelings for Kikyo, he's like, okay. Well, I want my bitch back now. Like, I want the woman that took care of me. Well, she finds out that she's in love with this half demon named Inuyasha. Okay?

Jacci: 09:08

And he's like, I don't like that. So I'm now going to transform Inuyasha and pretend to seal the Shikong jewel and then make her think that he's betraying her, to which then she tries to kill him or she feels like she's betrayed. And then he then turns around and turns him to Kikyo, and then decides to betray Inuyasha, which Inuyasha's like, what the hell you whatever love a half demon. Even though the whole time she's like, I love you the way that you are. So, Inuyasha's pissed, he ends up actually stealing the Sheikan jewel, and then Kikyo, she ends up killing Inuyasha.

Jacci: 09:47

Okay? Fast forward few hundred years later, insert the main freaking character Kagome, love interest that comes after Kikyo. And Naraku's still alive, upset as fuck that Inuyasha still lives and he doesn't have this cheekbone jewel and he still loves Kikyo. Well, Kagome comes out of nowhere and she's the reincarnation of Kikyo, so he's like, goddamn it. I have to deal with another bitch.

Jacci: 10:17

Again, it's just like Kikyo, but it's not Kikyo. Because Kikyo's dead.

Mac: 10:23

Uh-huh. It's

EJ: 10:24

like, you remind me some.

Jacci: 10:26

So then what's happening is the Chikon duel ends up getting reborn back into Kagome whatever. And then the first episode, if you watch it, Kagome destroying the duels and they get shattered across the world. And then that's what starts our whole journey where Naraku's like the main point of interest basically. And he's just like super fucking upset because somehow Kikyo is still living and there's like other things to it or whatever. The reason why I think this man first of all, why I think he's petty, okay, is because of what I just said.

Jacci: 11:00

The fact that he was in love with this chick and he's like, No, no, no. I don't like that. So he transforms into Inuyasha and then also transforms into Kikyo to basically betray or pit them against each other to make them feel like they're betrayed. And they both end up dying because of that. And then he doesn't even get what he wants because Kikyo died with the jewel.

Jacci: 11:22

So he doesn't even get what he fucking wants. But then Kagome comes hundreds of years later looking and smelling like Kikyo to him. And also the jewel was reincarnated in her body and he's like, hell yeah. So, and he spends the next, like, however long time again, going after her and again, trying to constantly pit them against each other by gaslighting the fuck out of both of them. He doesn't even show up in his own body.

Jacci: 11:50

He shows up in a bamboo suit, and it's a fake ass body that he just made out of other demons. The dude doesn't even show up himself. He just sends other people to do his bidding, and they're like, you can't even face me. He's like, what are you talking about, Inuyasha? And then Inuyasha just iron reaver soul reavers his fucking head off, and then just a bunch of bugs go out of nowhere.

Jacci: 12:11

Not only that, this dude is so such a pussy. Anytime that he goes to meet this group, he brings the poisonous bugs because one of the characters has a wind tunnel. And if he uses it, he will bring in the poisonous bugs and get poisoned. So then now that dude just becomes a useless member of the party because he can't fucking do anything. Because the one thing he'd do, he's gonna get poisoned.

Mac: 12:35

Right.

Jacci: 12:36

So I just think this dude is so evil or is a villain because he doesn't care about anyone else except himself and just keeps doing petty ass shit to just pit these people against each other, but is also a pussy on the inside forever and he ends up dying anyways.

Mac: 12:54

So he likes old girl that likes Inuasha. Right?

Jacci: 13:01

He doesn't like Hagome. He so when he turns into a demon, he loses his sense of, like, human brain, but he still has Onigumo's heart, which longs after Kikyo still. Oh. So the whole show is him still trying to break away from Kikyo, but use her and also use Kagome to get still after Inuyasha to get the jewels so he can become what he wants to do is become full demon and get rid of Onigumo's heart and then he's the most powerful demon. The whole the whole show is basically around him and Inuyasha's group trying to get the Sheikan jewel so that way they can make their wish, which Inuyasha's to become full demon and Naraku's is too because Naraku has that heart.

Mac: 13:44

Oh.

Jacci: 13:44

But the whole time, he just keeps fucking with them and he's just sitting in some temple in the mountains watching things happen from a mirror.

Mac: 13:54

So he wasn't really about that action then?

Jacci: 13:57

No. He never was. So Not until, like, later.

Mac: 14:01

No swords clashing with with the with with our homeboy Inuyasha?

Jacci: 14:06

Anytime you think that they fight, it's not him.

EJ: 14:10

Who else?

EJ: 14:12

It's always

Mac: 14:12

him. He never shows up.

Jacci: 14:14

He's never there. You and then you think. So in so there's Inuyasha and then Inuyasha, the final act. And the final act is as it fucking sounds, the final act. Right?

Jacci: 14:26

So like, okay, cool. We're gonna be like there. But the first half, the end, like last like five episodes, it's like leading up to the battle and you think that's gonna end?

Jacci: 14:36

Stop him. Stop him.

Jacci: 14:40

It's so annoying, man. And then even when you think you do like Yeah. And then even when you do think you kill him, he puts his heart somewhere else. So you never know where the heart is.

EJ: 14:52

That's a Voldemort cut style move right there.

Jacci: 14:54

Yeah. That's that he is a Voldemort with fucking hair and makeup.

EJ: 14:59

So he's a better looking Voldemort, which isn't hard as long as you have a nose.

Mac: 15:02

Got a nose. Right? You got yeah.

Jacci: 15:04

Naraku is known as the more hotter villain. I will say that.

EJ: 15:09

Oh, he does have them he has them bedroom eyes going on right there behind him.

Mac: 15:12

Would would he be would he make your list of possible husbandos?

Jacci: 15:18

No. Because he'd kill me.

EJ: 15:21

Man, it's not worth it.

Jacci: 15:23

He don't care. He created some demons from his own flesh and they end up having minds of their own as well. And one of the ones, his name is Kagra, she's a windman and she wants to get away. So she ends up conspiring with one of the with Iyasha's brother, Sashomaru, to try and like get him to kill Naraku so she can actually be free. But this whole time, Naraku knows what she's doing.

Jacci: 15:49

He's like letting her do it so he can like wait at the front door, like disappointed fucking dad and be like, Kagura, come here. And it's like, dude.

Mac: 15:59

Yeah.

Jacci: 16:00

And then he just

Jacci: 16:00

like sits there and crushes like her heart till she's almost dead and then lets go. And he just doing it to like remind her that like he can kill her

Mac: 16:07

at any moment. So is he like from episode one till the end? Yeah. The oh, so like the longevity. You gotta give that

Jacci: 16:18

to Yeah. Yeah. So he kinda he's talked about in the first episode because they talk about the

EJ: 16:24

whole Yeah. They don't reveal The

Jacci: 16:26

whole reason why this show exists is literally because of fifty years in feudal era past, this dude fell in love with a woman and got pissed off because he couldn't have her. And so he pitted them against each other. Typical fucking insecure male behavior.

Mac: 16:44

Yeah. I've seen shit like that happen in real life with mortal people.

Jacci: 16:49

Dude, that's what I'm saying. Imagine if some of these men actually had fucking powers. Okay? They'd be summoning demons. Yeah.

Jacci: 16:55

And then not showing up to the fight. Exactly. Yeah. I think I wrote a bunch of other stuff about things that he did that pissed me off. Yeah.

Jacci: 17:05

The most annoying thing about him is that he never shows his face. It's just so annoying. Yeah. Anytime his body shows up at any fight, it's fake made from a bunch of yokai, demons for noobs to just antagonize the cast and he fucking dips with a smirk on his face. Every time.

EJ: 17:22

Oh, he's one of those kind of villains then that, you know, con or or his intellect constantly is used to to spurn your hatred.

Jacci: 17:33

Dude, he's, I don't know. Like, it's it was even when I watch the show sometimes, anytime that he pops up, I'm like, I'm gonna hate this.

Mac: 17:41

This guy again.

EJ: 17:45

This guy. You know he's about to screw them over.

Jacci: 17:48

So He's always he's always smiling too, man. You're like, what are you

Mac: 17:53

I haven't watched this, but you're the way you're explaining it is like so you know he's he's he's the ultimate he's he's the main baddie, and you're just like, I would just love to see some some interaction between him and the the pro tag, like

Jacci: 18:08

No. He makes everyone else do his dirty work.

Mac: 18:10

That's what I'm saying. So he's just sitting in the cut, sending foot soldiers, almost like Yep. Like Power Rangers, how Rita would just always send motherfuckers to Earth.

EJ: 18:19

He he's like Yeah. He's Greg Littlefinger from Game of Thrones.

Jacci: 18:22

Yes. He's always conspiring, then he's always finding someone new to do something. He's like, he'll follow the crew, right? And see what next place that they're going to. He's like, Oh, let me go find a victim.

Jacci: 18:34

And let me like One of the most notable things that he does, which is where I think makes him truly evil is

Jacci: 18:41

the one of

Jacci: 18:41

the main characters, her name's Songo. Her backstory is really sad. Her entire village gets slaughtered by demons, which Noraku was directly he was directly involved in pretty much everyone's like history or downfall. He's in charge of the curse that's on one of the characters of why his entire family will always have a wind tunnel in their hand, which will it increases in size gradually till it will absorb them to death. Songo, he killed her entire village and family.

Jacci: 19:10

And then when her took control of her brother, made her brother kill her parents and then also try and kill her. And then her brother got died and then her brother got brought back to life, which he brought him back to life to then manipulate him and control him over and over and over again to make Songo think that he remembers her. But then he like because what he does is he puts sacred jewel shards in his body to then control him with his power. And he just keeps on doing this to her. So she like thinks that her brother remembers her, and then he's like, nope.

Jacci: 19:46

Just kidding. He's mine. Still mine. Oh, also still mine.

Jacci: 19:53

Then just Yeah. That's like

Mac: 19:54

a different type of evil.

EJ: 19:56

Yeah. It's manipulation right here.

Mac: 19:59

It's just Yeah.

Jacci: 20:00

It's always like trying to find someone to be like, hey. You hate this person. Right? I'll do this and you'll get this. But there's still like, he still wins in the end something.

Jacci: 20:10

He's always trying to take over people's bodies.

EJ: 20:13

Crazy.

Jacci: 20:13

Gross.

Mac: 20:14

I don't like it. That's a that's a solid pick. And then like I said, the the longevity goes a long way. Inuwasha, I don't know if people are putting it, like, high up, but it's one of those well known, animes that you gotta check out. And I plan to one day.

Mac: 20:31

But, yeah, it's like, I think you're on point, EJ, with that that little finger, that that one that's in the back having other people do all the mess

Jacci: 20:39

ups Mhmm.

Mac: 20:40

As he's just plotting and and moving further and further up or closer to his goal. So it's good to hear that he never obtained it because I'm

Jacci: 20:49

super pissed. Didn't.

EJ: 20:50

Was it satisfying when he was finally defeated? Was it like a a good defeat? You.

Jacci: 20:55

The way the anime kinda ended, they kinda rushed it at the end. So I wasn't very satisfied with the pacing and kinda like where they went with everything. It was kinda like, oh, okay. Finally. Yeah.

Jacci: 21:12

I guess.

Jacci: 21:13

So And

EJ: 21:13

that happens sometimes. Yeah. When they gotta brush to the end, it

Jacci: 21:17

Yeah. I think the

EJ: 21:18

dragged by horses and then, you know.

Jacci: 21:20

Yeah. I read the manga's way better, which I started reading the manga. So we'll see how that goes. But yeah, he's a petty human man. He's just insecure and in love.

Mac: 21:31

Just wanted to be loved.

EJ: 21:33

We do for love of gems and demons.

Mac: 21:35

I will say, before you get to yours, EJ, party foul on me.

Jacci: 21:39

Oh, yeah. What the heck?

Mac: 21:41

We didn't we didn't do our our shot here. Super bad on me. Oh, the Mountain Dew shot. Love it.

Jacci: 21:50

Love it. I gotta get, like, an anime.

EJ: 21:55

I know. I need

Jacci: 21:56

a class.

EJ: 21:57

Idea.

Jacci: 21:58

Cheers. Cheers.

EJ: 22:02

What are what are you guys drinking tonight? What do we got here? What do we got?

Mac: 22:06

Little Crown Vanilla. It's it's a school night, so, you know.

Jacci: 22:10

Yeah. I

EJ: 22:11

got Vanilla. Crown Vanilla.

Jacci: 22:13

It's a White Claw. White Claw came out with I don't know how new this is, but it said new at the store. It's like a tropical surf. Like surf is the brand. So it's more like tropical stuff.

EJ: 22:26

Like pineapple, kinda stuff.

Jacci: 22:29

This one is pomelo smash.

Mac: 22:32

No description of the flavor. Just

EJ: 22:35

Pomelos.

Mac: 22:37

Just That was

EJ: 22:38

a place in California.

Jacci: 22:39

It's not bad.

Mac: 22:40

A that's a tree in South Carolina. A palm

Jacci: 22:43

And then I just, you know, gotta have tequila on the side because that's the only thing. Honestly, like, as I've grown older, I think that's the only thing I can really take shots of anymore, is silver tequila.

Mac: 22:54

That is really That would wild.

EJ: 22:56

I went the other direction. The older I got, I was like, later, Jose. We can't film you. Gotta chill. Yeah.

Mac: 23:01

Bro. Well,

Jacci: 23:03

I I like I I can take shots of whiskey, but I that you're not supposed to do that. Like, you're supposed to sip on it. I don't wanna do that.

Mac: 23:12

Right.

Jacci: 23:13

If I'm taking shots of whiskey, I'm trying to be like I'm 22 again, I'm not trying to live that route, you know, well, if it's really 25. I'm trying to be 25 again, and I'm not trying to be 25 anymore.

Mac: 23:23

Yeah. We're just aging different, Jackie, because, like, the further I got from my twenties, the more tequila affected my body.

EJ: 23:30

Oh, yeah.

Mac: 23:31

Negatively. And then whiskey was just like, I got you, baby. Let's sit over here with us old folks. I'm just like, yes. Thank you.

Jacci: 23:41

Let me warm your esophagus for Give

Mac: 23:44

you a

Jacci: 23:44

nice Pause.

Mac: 23:45

Pause. Jackie. Anyways. Alright, EJ. What you got?

Mac: 23:52

Who's who's who's batty number three for you?

EJ: 23:55

Number three is going to be Lord Ostrom, the Black Knight from Record of Lotus Wars.

Jacci: 24:02

Oh, yeah. I'm excited for your guys' picks because I actually, like, don't know any of them.

EJ: 24:06

So Lord Ostrom, he was probably one of my first, like, anime fantasy style bad guys that I I've I mean he's just the one that I measure most fantasy style anime by. Now he's called the Black Knight Lotus Wars or the record Lotus Wars. He starts off as the right hand man and from the get go, you you could tell just by his presence and the way that everyone acts around him as far as the bad guys and the good guys that that this man knows his shit. Okay? Like him walking in just makes people back the fuck up.

EJ: 24:43

So, he doesn't even have to draw a weapon. It's just his presence. So it reminded me in of, as a teenager watching this of, you know, like Vader, when Darth Vader comes in. Darth Vader comes in, everyone's like, you know, their are, oh, it's Vader. Ostrom kind of projects the same thing but without the fanfare.

EJ: 25:06

Like, he doesn't talk much or anything in the beginning. He's the right hand to Emperor Beld, who's like the big bad guy in the very beginning of this series.

Jacci: 25:13

Mhmm.

EJ: 25:14

So you don't see much except for you're like, well, there's gotta be a reason the big bad guy trusts this guy. So when the battles come, you see that he seems like he's very at home in the battle, and it's it's and when he does come to to fighting, it's like a precision deal because you got your group of heroes watching as as battle unfolds, and the first time you see Ostrom actually take it to take offensive action is this this huge siege on a castle where they're leading this army of monsters. Okay? And the monsters are tearing apart these human soldiers, and you're just like, wow, these guys are these guys are terrible. But then the captain and the guard are the humans, and he's kinda like the one that befriended the the the heroes, he's like going out there and he's he's doing pretty good.

EJ: 26:03

So everyone's like, oh, shit. You know, this guy knows his stuff. Ashram takes that dude out with one hit, dude. And it's like a it's like one of those, you know, those old samurai deals where it's like the sword comes out and then it's back and the dude's like dead. I was like, damn, dude.

EJ: 26:17

And he doesn't it's it's like no big deal. You know? This whole big battle's going on in the fire shit, and he's just like, killed him. Alright. So it's like then he's just standing on top of the castle just looking out, and it's like the good guys have to escape this this this siege, and they're getting away.

EJ: 26:34

And Ostrom's just standing there. You know he can't see their asses because it's like the middle of night.

Mac: 26:39

Right.

EJ: 26:39

You know, and they're they're off but he's just standing there, it just gives that perception of like, this motherfucker's watching them leave. He's just like staring at them as they go, you know. And you the main the main good guy who's Parn, which is, like, the worst fighter ever in the beginning of this story. And he's looking up at Ostrom because he idolized that captain who just got smoked. And he's kinda like, oh, I'm gonna get him back.

EJ: 27:06

Ashram's just, I mean, yeah, like that. He just he's like, these fools aren't on my level. You know, they can be badasses if they want, they aren't on my level. So as the story progresses, Ashram starts stepping up in the game. I mean, all these monsters and everything nearby him, they all show a sense of reverence for him.

EJ: 27:29

Like, they know. They don't wanna mess with him. A a bigger battle happens later, and eventually, Lord Ostrom becomes the top of the the enemy. Okay? And I was really torn with him as a as a bad guy because in the thing, you kind of like him at the same time.

EJ: 27:48

It's like he's not a black and white bad guy so much as, hey, he's just on the opposite side than these guys. You know what I mean? And as as it goes on, he's kinda like how you kinda end up rooting for someone, like, kinda like Magneto, you're like, oh, Magneto's dope, man. You know, I root for him. It's the same kind

Jacci: 28:06

But Magneto but Magneto technically switched sides, though. He does he doesn't actually switch sides. Right?

EJ: 28:11

No. He doesn't. In the story, later on, it's almost as he drops away from the focus of trying to rule Lotos. Lotos is the land that the game or the story is set on.

Mac: 28:23

Yeah.

EJ: 28:23

So in the very end, he decides that that is not as important to him as the as the life of this one dark elf female that he kind of grows fond of.

Jacci: 28:34

Oh, see? Men and women.

EJ: 28:36

So It's love. Yeah. And it shows that he's not

Jacci: 28:41

Love with the dick.

EJ: 28:42

Dark, you know, inside because he ends up appreciating everything that this woman is to him, and she takes a priority over that's his boss at first, his belt. But oh, and that's the the dark elf I was talking about. She's, like, always got back. And eventually, in the story, she ends up becoming they become closer and closer to a point where she becomes more important to him towards the end than defeating the good guys. So he kinda takes a backseat towards the very end.

EJ: 29:18

And when they face the final evil, he's involved, but he's not he is not the final evil. But I just picked him because I felt like he represents that type of the type of villain I like where they're not just black and white, and it's not so easy to define them as, you know, it he comes from a noble family and everything if you read his back back information and probably in the manga it goes even deeper, but it it doesn't he doesn't have anything that dry like, you're like, oh, cut and dry. This is what made him evil. You know what I mean?

Mac: 29:51

Yeah.

EJ: 29:51

More so than it's like he grew up here with these people and this is his, you know, his deal. It's not like, you know, he hates them for any other reason. He's trying to unite Lotos, the the continent that the story's on, so are the other people. So, but I like the fact that I picked him because his presence and his precision impressed me. I like the fact that he can come in there without anything drawn and everyone knows the shit just got real just for him showing up, you know?

EJ: 30:25

Yeah. A look from him makes everyone else go, oh, shit. If he draws his sword, it's on, you know? So I thought that was always impressive and I I kinda measure all my medium rank bad guys that way, like, the ones that could be an anti hero, but

Jacci: 30:43

Yeah.

EJ: 30:43

You know, but

Jacci: 30:44

it's Technically an anti hero. Right? Like, he's just trying to gain the land for himself.

EJ: 30:49

Exactly. So they're all just trying to rule this land, and and it and it it all goes back to the you know, this particular land of Lotos in the series

Mac: 30:58

Yep.

EJ: 30:59

Was torn apart when the gods fought. It was a huge war between the gods of light and the gods of dark, and it split this land in half. Well, the goal of both sides of this is to reunite it. The light side wants to reunite it under their vision. The dark side wants to reunite it under their vision.

Jacci: 31:14

Okay. He wanted to create, like, a dark utopia, basically, where him and his woman are just

EJ: 31:19

Yeah. Him and his woman are, you know, making little dark elves and, you know, whatever. But

Jacci: 31:24

Oh, it's a family.

EJ: 31:27

But the thing is is, you know, I I always felt like it reminded me of the type of villains that I I I like where they're thinkers, their presence is there.

Jacci: 31:37

There's actually some personality too with it.

EJ: 31:39

Yeah. He's not just a boasting kinda guy or, you know, I'm huge and I'm a badass or he's, you know, I'm powerful. Not anything like that. He is driven. He's intelligent, but he's also reserved, and it it it kinda exudes discipline.

EJ: 31:56

Like, you're like, this guy has a goal, and I think he can actually get there. You know what I mean? When you're watching all these other players kinda come and go and other leaders, all the other leaders kinda die off during the story except for Tim and Lord Cashew, which the guy's name is Lord Cashew.

Jacci: 32:13

Yeah. That's funny. I was about to say,

Jacci: 32:15

like, the nut.

EJ: 32:16

Come on, Josh. So, I mean, you wanna be at Lord Ostrom? Come on, man. So, Lord Ostrom, he's just been a big influence on me and I feel like if anyone watches it, they made a secondary series, the Apollo record of Lotus Wars, which kinda hints with him in it and kinda has nods towards him and the Dark Elf.

Jacci: 32:36

It's just have a video game too. Right?

EJ: 32:38

I think so. It's a Yeah.

Jacci: 32:39

I think that's what sounds familiar to me. There's a yeah. There's like a video game for it.

EJ: 32:44

But the the second series is is like a a loosely connected to Record of Lotus Wars. So it doesn't make a lot of sense because it shows Ostrom and shows some of the other characters, but the timing doesn't seem to match up. You know how they ever when sometimes when they have a series and they they it it takes off and people like it a lot and then they wanna bring parts of it back. I don't think they made a good plan with that but he if they ever bring anything back as far as along those fantasy lines with those characters, I hope that he gets another shot because once again, as far as nineties anime, he was he's one of the best villains. I can't say villains as much as like just an antagonist.

Jacci: 33:28

Yeah. You

EJ: 33:28

know, he's not driven by evil as far as it's it it is. Yeah, Like the main evil character is more magically involved in doing things and you'll see that in the story. They're not they don't have a physical form of their own. It's kind of like evil as an essence. But he doesn't give into that either.

EJ: 33:48

He has his own goals. He won't serve that evil. So it's he's an interesting like I said, he's very interesting. He's got layers like like like Shrek, like a big onion. So, DoorDash from The Onion, the black onion.

EJ: 34:01

Yeah. I like him.

Mac: 34:04

Well done.

Jacci: 34:06

Black black Shrek.

EJ: 34:08

Yeah. Black Shrek, black onion. I don't know. Whatever he is. He's got layers, man.

EJ: 34:12

And

Jacci: 34:12

that dark Layers. Over love layers.

EJ: 34:15

I mean, that dark elf saw, like, knocking swords out of the air and all backing him up and shit. Plus it didn't help, you know, it helped that she was super hot. Like, damn. And I wish I was Lord Austin.

Mac: 34:27

So like, there's no like real Anna Ma's, like, like you said, he's not driven by like a hatred for the protagonist or anything. He's just, it's just him, you So I understand what you were like, it's not real like a antagonist, but like.

EJ: 34:49

Yeah, he's not evil per se, but he's just like, this is what I want and I'm gonna do whatever I have to get to. To get to. You know what mean?

Mac: 34:56

Because there's a greater evil. He's just like.

EJ: 34:59

Yeah, there's a greater evil in the story. He's sort of like the secondary villain. But more so, he's he's like the antithesis of Parn, the main villain.

Jacci: 35:08

Well, like that word.

EJ: 35:10

Yeah. Parn wants to be that good, but Parn hates him because he's so much better

Mac: 35:16

than Parn. It's like, I mean, later

EJ: 35:20

on they do clash, but I mean, it's just it just Eudaim shows you later in the story that Arne is still not on his level. That shit comes and then you're like, yo, you're good, but you're not you're not as good as you're better.

Jacci: 35:35

I've never heard of antiphysis.

EJ: 35:38

Antiphysis is like the like a nemesis. Like, you're you're total opposite of

Jacci: 35:42

Yeah.

EJ: 35:43

You and the representation of

Jacci: 35:45

Interesting.

EJ: 35:46

Yeah. So anyway, that is my my second pick or my first pick. What do you got, Willie?

Mac: 35:54

So, like, my the three that I picked, I'm just like, these are pretty pretty heavy hitting villains in in their respected anime. The the commonality between them, the similarities between them is they are so intelligent, so 10 steps ahead of the protagonist, it's ridiculous. It's almost like a superpower they got, how smart they are, and, their their thirst for knowledge and the next level of power. Not like a level of power because they're so weak and they just need to be stronger, but because they just where they're at now, even though they know they're superior than everybody, they wanna be more superior. You know?

Jacci: 36:45

Thirst for power.

Mac: 36:46

What's the next highest being I can be. So Yeah. I was trying to rack and stack them. I guess this this choice was the easiest of the three. So my third villain on my list is, Sasuke Aizen from Bleach.

Mac: 37:04

And if you know anything about Bleach, you know, when you hear that name, most people will say he is broken. Right? A typical phrase when people are like, this dude just is so overpowered, he's too strong. The only way you could beat him is the MacGuffin at the end where, you know, Ichigo just channels all his power, does one final attack, and, you know, loses his powers, but, oh, never mind. He has his powers back, future, you know, so people are kinda upset about that.

Mac: 37:34

However

Jacci: 37:35

Typical shonen.

Mac: 37:36

When you sit there and you look at the backstory of of Aizen, this it it is astronomical, all of the stuff he pulled off. Like, as a as a captain or as a member of the 13,

Jacci: 37:52

you tie.

Mac: 37:53

Yep. Squads that protect the the Soul Society. For whatever reason, he put this plan into action to where he was a member of, I believe, the fifth squad, and at the time there was a captain on it, and he wanted that captain removed so he can take over the squad. So he framed him in order to get him exiled to the real world, and then Sosuke, you know, or Aizen took his place there. Then he started manipulating other things, and sorry if this spoils anything from the the first bleach that came out in early two thousands, but if you haven't watched it by now, I don't know what to tell you.

Mac: 38:32

Right? The main character, Ichigo, apparently, his father is a a soul reaper or, you know, a shinigami. His mother was a Quincy, and Aizen created a situation to where those two would meet, and then they would fall in love and end up having Ichigo. And the whole time Ichigo was a kid growing up, Aizen has had was monitoring the whole time. As we're watching the anime

Jacci: 39:01

I'm getting so spoiled right now. Oh, I'm sorry. It's okay. As soon

Jacci: 39:05

as you said that you were picking Sosuke, I was like, I just wanna

EJ: 39:09

suck that.

Mac: 39:09

This is all stuff from like the manga or whatnot. Like the anime doesn't get into that level, but you're watching it and he is he

Jacci: 39:16

is I remember the anime talks about his dad and then there's something about his mom.

Mac: 39:21

Yep.

Jacci: 39:21

Oh, actually his mom being Quincy was, that was before No, that was still early.

Jacci: 39:27

I think

Jacci: 39:28

I do remember that.

Mac: 39:28

Because you

EJ: 39:29

remember, I don't

Jacci: 39:30

remember him orchestrating that. Don't remember that being

Mac: 39:35

Kingfisher, right? The one that killed his mom? Yes. That's why he was the because like she had the That's

Jacci: 39:40

the queen. Yep. Okay. I do remember this. Okay.

Jacci: 39:42

I'm not getting spoiled.

Mac: 39:43

So, yep. So his mom passed, but like, Isaac was just monitoring it because Isaac knew sooner or later he was gonna play a part in this whole thing. And this is like 23 d chess and we're playing fucking chutes and ladders at this Yeah.

EJ: 40:01

I mean, he's playing this shit before the guys.

Mac: 40:04

That's what I'm saying. Like, I'm gonna make you guys have a kid and this kid is gonna do this and this and this. Like he's seeing second, third, fourth order effects and people are still living in the present. Right? So not only is he manipulating things in the world of the living, he's has, you know, things going on in soul society.

Mac: 40:22

He's playing the, you know, you well, you see a picture of him before he goes full, like, his transition to evil. He's wearing these glasses. He has, like, the nerd haircut. He's super kind to everybody. His lieutenant, who is like just enamored with him because he's so nice, so knowledgeable, and what was her name?

Mac: 40:44

Hina Hinamori. Hinamori. Momo. Momo is what that, Momo Hinamori. Momo.

Mac: 40:50

So he does all of this stuff. Things are happening in the real world with Ichigo and what's the I wanna say Ishida, that's the Quincy, and Renji and Rukia, all that stuff's going on over there. Meanwhile, he's back here prepping everybody for the biggest oop to oop. His sword or his Zampaktu has the ability, so it's called like the innate ability of everybody's sword is the, what is it, Shinkai? I believe that's the thing before it hits the Yeah,

Jacci: 41:28

it's like a barrage basically.

Mac: 41:30

Yeah, it's total hallucination, right? Yeah. So he can make you see something and sense everything and it just be totally fake. So one day they're waking up and they see his body impaled on a building and everybody's like, who killed Isaac? And, like, for the longest, people are like, Isaac's dead.

Mac: 41:53

They have a whole funeral and everything. All of this to say, for whatever reason, the people that he wanted framed are framed, right? Because you got old buddy who runs the what do you keep calling him? The guy in the hat. Fucking Oh, Kisuke?

Mac: 42:12

Kisuke Urahara. Yep. So he frames him to get him taken away because he knows Kisuke is smart and Kisuke would figure this shit out. Right? So he gets him sent to the real world, and he plans all of this stuff.

Mac: 42:24

This whole execution of Rukia because they feel Rukia has betrayed the law of Shinigami by giving her powers to Ichigo in the first episode. They're like, you gotta go. He knows that the only way to kill a Shinigami is this whole thing where this super ultra mega hot firebird, the ultimate source of power is gonna come out and tear her apart. And because inside of her, she has the, what do you call it? The Bokio or whatever.

Mac: 42:59

The this is cube that's don't remember. It's almost like the omni spark of a

EJ: 43:03

Yeah. An essence of it. Yeah.

Mac: 43:06

And he needs that for the next phase of his plan. So the way he keeps manipulating people, he's turning Rukia and her big brother, Byakuya, against each other. And Byakuya is just like, the law is the law. I know you're my sister, but you broke it. You gotta die.

Mac: 43:23

And she's crying. Renji's upset, like, how are you doing this to your sister? I'm a fight you. Yeah. He fucks it like

Jacci: 43:29

she's And then you think Byakuya is like this evil person. Right. He's not.

Mac: 43:32

And it's So this whole civil war is going on in the soul society, and he's just like in the background. Because they think he's dead, he's just hiding. So this all happens. Ichigo comes and saves Rukia, learns his ban kai, does all of this stuff, fights Byakuya, does all of this, and everybody's like, alright, well shit's cool now. And then Aizen shows up.

Mac: 43:55

And they're like, what the fuck is going on here? And Aizen's just like, you know, that's cool. I'll take this. And at this point, Ichigo's the most powerful person in soul society because he's in his bankai.

Jacci: 44:06

He make any sense.

Mac: 44:09

So he just dashes up to, to Aizen who hasn't even unleashed his vancai or anything, goes to chop Aizen. Aizen just catches his sword with his hand and is just like, yeah, I'm leaving. Oh, and I'm taking these two captives with me because they was rolling with me the whole time. And you're just like, what is happening? Right?

Mac: 44:26

And that's like phase one. And then the number of people he just keeps betraying over and over and the level of power he gets. He creates the Iran car over in Hectomundo, and then he betrays them once they start figuring out what the hell is going on. They're trying to attack him like the court guard captains, lieutenants, Iran car

Jacci: 44:47

Everybody is after this man.

Mac: 44:49

Visards, like they all come together to fight this man and he takes them out no worries. Like they're using Bankai, Shinkai. He's like, I'm not even using Bankai. I'm just using the the regular, like I took my sword out the sheath and it's over. The minute his sword comes out, game over.

Mac: 45:05

You're hypnotized. You don't know what's real, what's not. They're fighting him in their mind, and they're stabbing each other. And he's just watching it from afar. Like, they're thinking they're killing Isaac, and then they come down.

Mac: 45:16

They're, like, bleeding and stuff, falling out the sky. He's just sitting there like, it's pathetic. And like I said, it gets to the point where Ichigo has to, like, obtain this superhuman power, takes him away. And it's a dope beginning to the fight because he, like, face palms Eisen and takes him away. But I think the the awesome thing is, like, the fact they know they can't kill him, they have to seal him away.

Mac: 45:41

Like, he's that strong. They can't kill him. They seal him away. Yeah. So they seal him away, and he does make a reappearance in thousand year blood war, which is super dope when you see him again.

Mac: 45:52

They respect how strong he is to the point where, like, we're getting our ass kicked. Hey, Isaac. You wanna come help us out real quick? But we're gonna keep you chained up in this chair because we can't trust you. That's how powerful Eisen is.

Mac: 46:06

So the manipulation, the intelligence, and his whole thing was like, there's another form higher than than Soul Reaper. And then he creates the Arakhar. He's like, there's another form higher than that. I'm gonna be the ultimate being. And it's that thirst of just wanting to just achieve the highest level of of existence that keeps motivating him.

Mac: 46:28

So he's not inherently evil. He's just fucking curious to the point where he's willing to just ruin everybody else to get to where he wants.

EJ: 46:38

I mean, you have to the level of patience and planning. And I mean, he was smart about it to where he never he never had to go against, like, them until he's ready to reveal that. You know, like you said, he had them hitting against each other on minor things just enough to break it up to where they weren't unified enough to be ready for when he was gonna reveal his ultimate, you know, plan. They were still in the middle of their own conflict. That was all played by him.

EJ: 47:20

So it does show the level planning and stuff is like, is super impressive.

Mac: 47:28

Yeah, it is. He's up there and you'll look at any top, like if you YouTube like top anime villains, like he's on everybody's list.

Jacci: 47:36

Yeah.

Mac: 47:36

Like probably not number one, but top 10? He's 10. Talking about Aizen. Hundred percent. Somebody's talking about Aizen.

Mac: 47:46

Alright, Jackie, who's number two for you?

Jacci: 47:50

Alright. Number two for me is going to be Madara. Okay. So, for those that have watched Naruto, have watched Naruto Shippuden, know exactly who I'm talking about. And I'll give again a little bit of background on this guy and like why I chose him.

Jacci: 48:13

But one thing that's interesting, and I forgot about it until I actually started doing research, is Madara's actually not referenced. And I don't know if he is in the manga, but he's not referenced at all in the first part of Naruto. So you don't even realize that this dude has been like day one villain since back in the day until Naruto Shippuden comes out and it's like episode one. That's the first time that the dude's ever mentioned.

Mac: 48:42

Yeah.

Jacci: 48:42

So episode one of Shippuden is when they finally see Sasuke after like a really long time. And Sasuke is exuding this like type of chakra. And the nine tailed fox Kurama inside of Naruto is like, I've seen this chakra before. It looks like Madara's. And Naruto's like, who's that?

Jacci: 49:04

Like, he's just not doesn't know, because this he's not really talked about. So little bit of background from Madara. So Madara back long time ago before Konoha was even, created, which is the leaf village that most of our main characters come from in Naruto. He actually founded the village alongside what's known as the Senji clan, which includes the first and the second Hokage. But him and the first Hokage were best friends and just like how I feel like most villains may or may not start off with besides Naraku was always just a bad fucking seed.

Jacci: 49:46

He had a vision for peace. He wanted to him and his best friend, Hashirama, wanted to create a village where there was no death, no ninjas fighting each other, just have a village that was just peaceful and was super great. But the problem is is the Uchihas had a rivalry with the Senji clan. A lot of the Shinobi World Wars, if you will, that were created were literally because of some of their fighting that happened between the Uchihas and the Senji. So even though they were best friends, their clans did not get along well.

Jacci: 50:25

So it was really tough. But the Chihas were feared because of their Sharingan, which is very eye power, if you will, that they develop from usually very traumatic or extreme events. And Madara, even before he got the Sharingan, was just bodying people, especially on the Senji clan. It was like the the second Shinobi war, I think it was, first Shinobi war. The first Shinobi sorry.

Jacci: 50:54

Was the first Shinobi war between Senjis and the Uchihas and Mato was just fucking killing people, man. But that was also the start of like Mato's villain story, if you will. So Mato started growing up and realizing like peace was not happening. People just continuously shunned his clan, said, we don't care regardless of how nice you guys are or what you're capable of. And even his best friend's brother who became the second Hokage was also wary of them.

Jacci: 51:26

So they like purposely put them in like charge of security of the village. So they were the police force just to kinda keep an eye on them. Some people say that like maybe he did that in a way to help them because by them being the police force may might make them look better to the village. So there's some like, conversations about maybe the second Okag was actually even though he's wary, like, was actually good. Wow.

Jacci: 51:48

Either way. But Madara ended up losing his brother, Izuna, by Toby Rama, which is his best friend's brother. So that caused the whole thing. So that was super, like, a huge thing. And Madara's brother was like, here, I want you to take my eyes because you'll you'll use them.

Jacci: 52:08

And then that's when he ends up getting the mangekyou sharingan, which he was one of the first ones, I think, to actually get that. And it was one of the most powerful ones. And usually, like, what mangekyou sharingan is for any Uchiha is like, usually it's one person that's very important to you, either a lover, best friend or someone that you either had to kill or died or you receive the eyes, you get this special power then you get some special things with it. Well, now Amaro is pissed. Right?

Jacci: 52:34

So now this happens. He just sees all this shit happening. And then he wants to be Hokage. The village is like, absolutely not. We don't trust you.

Jacci: 52:42

You cannot be Hokage. He's like, fuck this. I'm out. And he deserts the village, which causes a huge thing. And then because he's so pissed off, he just keeps coming back and picking fights Yep.

Jacci: 52:54

With the village, which causes him to have to fight his two friends, really his best friend, which then leads into one of the most ultimate fights between him and the first Hokage where he ends up killing the first Hokage. And while a lot of people don't realize in Naruto, there's two statues, which is very prominent from, like, one of the battles that is Hashirama and Madara. They don't really explain that, I don't think, until Shippuden.

EJ: 53:18

But you see them before Shippuden. Right?

Jacci: 53:21

You don't know. If you see the statues, but they don't they don't explain it though. They don't say that you don't know that Madara exists, which is crazy because

EJ: 53:28

was into prior to I mean Yes. In his present. So I mean

Jacci: 53:34

Yes. So I say all this. Right? So Madara then goes and he he gets in this fight, Hashirama dies. What everyone thinks is that Madara also dies.

Jacci: 53:44

Okay? But he doesn't. Okay? Instead, this dude goes into hiding. Alright?

Jacci: 53:51

And then he starts, that's when he starts planning and he starts manipulating. So Madara ends up discovering some tablet, which I'm gonna go into my honorable mention later of why this tablet's important, so just remember the tablet. But he discovers a tablet saying there's this thing called an infinite Tsukiyomi and that's the only way that everyone will find peace. So now Madara is obsessed with this new idea of peace, but it means that everyone has to enter into this new world where basically like they have no lives. A lot of people are gonna have to die and a lot of people have to sacrifice in order to achieve this, like, ultimate goal that he has, which is just this infinite Tsukiyomi.

Jacci: 54:25

There's a lot that goes into it. So the first step that he realized he needs to do is he starts manipulating the fuck out of Obito Uchiha. Okay? Which starts everything and affects every person in the show. It's where he takes a nine tailed fox to then go after the leaf village, which then kills Naruto's parents, then the fucking fox gets sealed into him.

Jacci: 54:44

And then he ends up killing. I think one of the worst things that he does is he kills Rin, which is a character that is best friends with or sorry, Kakashi and Obito. They lose their best friend. Mikoshi's journey starts and Obito's lost, and that's how Madara's able to manipulate him. He finds him.

Jacci: 55:04

He's like, come with me, son. I'm gonna show you the right way about what we're gonna do and how we're gonna fix all this. Which directly starts influencing the Akatsuki, and the Akatsuki are a huge thing, the Shippuden realm to start gathering all of the freaking tailed beasts that are in all these different hosts so that way he can create this infinite Tsukiyomi. But the whole time the whole time that this is leading up, Madara is manipulating Obito to do all these things. Obito picks up a new persona known as Toby.

Jacci: 55:33

No one knows this. Everyone also thinks that Obito's dead. Madara's chilling in his tree trunk until he dies a happy, peaceful death at the ripe age of fucking 95. Like, nothing's wrong. He's just like, alright, I'm gonna die now, but I'm gonna be back because what we talked about, you're gonna break.

Mac: 55:55

Just watching all of this shit happen. He's just like, I think I could die now.

Jacci: 56:00

And then he's like, he's like, you done yet? Nope.

EJ: 56:06

Did you?

Mac: 56:08

I'm ready.

Jacci: 56:10

Nope. Nope. Not yet. You didn't bring them all together. You just start the fourth work.

Jacci: 56:13

Okay. So then like this whole thing starts happening. You're seeing all the you don't realize like how many events this is now in Shippuden where it's like becoming pretty like you fast forward, like after the village gets destroyed not destroyed, but attacked. You go through the whole thing of Naruto. You think that Orochimaru isn't.

Jacci: 56:32

That is the villain. Absolutely fucking not. Not even, like, scratching the surface. The fourth Shinobi war ends up starting, and you think it's because of Obito, but really it's Madara. The whole time dude comes back to life, so many people die in this war, characters that you fucking love, and it's just absolutely heartbreaking.

Jacci: 56:51

Madara doesn't give a shit because at end of the day, he's gonna cast this Genjutsu and that's it. We're all gonna be happy. Okay? The reason why I picked him as a villain is, yes, his his whole, like, why I'm going down this path is peace. A lot of people think that they're doing the right things for peace, but he he didn't care.

Jacci: 57:11

Like, he went so far as to manipulate, like, kill other people around Obito to take this one person that he knew that he could just, like, hold onto to make to do all of his bidding even while he was dead, just waiting to, like, live using what's known as this guy named Black Zetsu. We'll talk about him later at end credits. But so that way he can come back to life on this artificial body and then eventually, like, become a real body and then, like, do the skin jutsu. But I what pissed me off the most is this man just was like, okay. I'm going to sleep now.

Jacci: 57:49

I'll be back however many fucking years later. Like, he just sat chilling, waiting, drinking tea, talking to Obito about life, and then is like, I'm gonna die now. I'm happy. I'm good. And like nothing.

Jacci: 58:01

Just didn't have to suffer. Didn't have to do anything. Just let everyone else do really Obito do all of his bidding. Obito shouldered all of this on him, this poor man. Right?

Jacci: 58:12

And it's just like and then when he changes sides at the end, Mario's like, cool. I really don't fucking need you anymore. And then just tosses him and then Obito does. And it's just one of the craziest fucking twists, but I don't think he's a true evil like being like where he's just like super petty. Because I don't think he's petty.

Jacci: 58:36

I think he just had like a huge goal where he just truly believed because he tried to believe in the peaceful of no fighting, but it wasn't happening. His brother was taken from him. The Chihahs were still getting scorn. And also because of him, he indirectly and I mean, yes, true. The whole Chiyo clan died because of another person, Itachi, but Madara indirectly caused that.

Jacci: 59:02

Because of the attack on the village that was caused by Madara manipulating Obito, everything was blamed on the Uchiha clan and that's where the plan started. And then Danzo was also saying some shit with that. That's where the plan was gonna start to exterminate the whole fucking clan.

Mac: 59:16

Yep.

Jacci: 59:17

So that like, it started because of him. And so, yes, a lot of people would be like, well, he didn't really do it. It does he if it wasn't for him, it would've they probably would've been alive still. A lot of people would've been alive still. Yep.

Jacci: 59:30

Love He started this years ago before the village. This man was doing shit, like, as the village, like, got first created. It was before Naruto's time. The man has been like

Mac: 59:42

I I gravitate to to villains that are that developed and that methodical with their stuff, you know? Because while you're watching Naruto, you're thinking, oh, this is the bad guy. Oh, no. This is the bad guy. Yeah.

Mac: 59:54

Oh, no. This is the bad guy. And then when you get later into Shaputo, you're like, you were behind all like, these were all dominoes that were falling in place for this. Like, and when Madara showed up, you were just like, oh yeah, you that dude. Because my man was summoning, if you played Final Fantasy, you know, when they summoned meteor, you're just like, bro, shit.

Mac: 01:00:14

Oh, yeah. It's about to be 9,999 deadmits.

Jacci: 01:00:17

That's it. Everyone said.

Mac: 01:00:19

And then like he summoned it and they, you know, all the ninjas came together, all the, all the Hokage's from all the villages, all of their fucking, know, fucking, they held it back. They're like, whew. And Madara's like, that's cool. What about if I summon another one? And then another one was coming down.

Mac: 01:00:36

I'm like, Jesus Lord, Madara.

Jacci: 01:00:38

She had plan after plan after plan. I it's just it's a lot of people talk shit on Naruto sometimes, but I I think it's one of the, like, craziest like, the way that they went with that plot line and how it turned out and everything. Well, I think

EJ: 01:00:57

Naruto's strength too is that they have so many characters, and it's all interweaved so much that every conflict is bringing in someone that might be one of your favorites. Kinda like, you know, like, it like Dragon Ball z. Okay? You got your mainstays in Dragon Ball z, but you always knew it's gonna come down to Vegeta and Goku, whatever. But in Naruto, you've got so many and it could pit people against each other and then you see someone get defeated or someone die that you really like, but it's so many they're they're weaved to, like, bonded with another character.

Jacci: 01:01:33

So, I think characters

EJ: 01:01:35

get, like, influenced by the death of this one, or the the battle between these two, the death of this one, and it actually it it makes it feel more I don't know. Like, every conflict seems more visceral. Like, there's so much more behind it because it's not just empty names fighting. You know, you end up liking individuals who aren't the main character or or or could even be against the main character. So when you see this plot bring everyone to, you know, into this conflict, you're just like, wow.

EJ: 01:02:05

You know? So much to lose, so much emotion and stuff. They hang on these characters.

Jacci: 01:02:10

Dude, the the biggest notable death and I if you haven't watched the fucking show yet, like, don't know what to tell you, but the biggest notable death two for me actually, but the biggest one for everyone is Neji. Like, that was just I was so mad. Actually because this is when I was binge watching Shapudin. So when that happened, I didn't watch it for forty eight hours. I was so You were in mourning.

Jacci: 01:02:42

Was pissed. Well,

Mac: 01:02:43

house was You

Jacci: 01:02:46

ever watch a show where one of like a character dies, you're like, how the fuck am I supposed to like watch the rest of the show? Like, you just don't know. Like, you're so mad with a character. Like, if you haven't watched Last of Us, I'm not gonna like spoil it, but like something happens in there and I'm just telling you right now, I don't know what I'm

Jacci: 01:03:01

gonna do.

Mac: 01:03:02

Have you not played the games?

Jacci: 01:03:03

No. I'm scared. Well, that's why.

EJ: 01:03:06

Scared to I'm scared

Jacci: 01:03:06

to play the games. I can't play the

Mac: 01:03:08

game right here. I just imagine if you played it. Because you I

Jacci: 01:03:13

played I played the first twenty minutes of the first one. Uh-huh. And I couldn't I couldn't hand I couldn't handle it because they had to sneak in the building to, like, get one of the clickers and, like, you you I couldn't do it. My heart I was it's palpitating. I was so I thought I was gonna have to shut the game Scared.

EJ: 01:03:30

The first time I played it because the fir the intro, the history, and when his daughter died, I was like, yo, man. I can't watch this. I can't I was like,

Mac: 01:03:40

yo, that's

EJ: 01:03:41

that's too that's too dramatic.

Jacci: 01:03:43

Hi, Apple.

Mac: 01:03:44

Hi, Apple. She says hi. She's off to save lives.

Jacci: 01:03:53

Aw. Good luck.

Mac: 01:03:55

Good luck.

Jacci: 01:03:56

But, yeah.

Jacci: 01:03:58

I don't know. I

Mac: 01:03:59

hope you save them.

Jacci: 01:04:03

I feel like that's stressful.

Jacci: 01:04:05

You know? I gotta throw some pots and luck or I

Jacci: 01:04:08

don't why do I say that? Have a good one.

Mac: 01:04:11

Give all you got.

Jacci: 01:04:12

Yeah. I'm playing. Believe it.

EJ: 01:04:16

You do your meal too. Like what?

Jacci: 01:04:23

But yeah, Mara is great, but I think what makes him the most villainous is just the fact that you just sat in that tree trunk And waited and died a nice, happy life and you're like, it's Okay, it's all going to get taken care of for me.

EJ: 01:04:39

Think that's what makes him so bizarre or like hard to grasp, is that his idea that it's gonna end up all being peaceful was like a a justification for whoever had to die. It didn't it didn't faze him because

Jacci: 01:04:54

He didn't care. He was gonna do whatever he had to do. Didn't matter who it was. Didn't didn't matter because at the end of the day, those sacrifices were miniscule compared to the greater, like, pledge.

EJ: 01:05:05

Yeah. It's like you can so compartmentalize the deaths of all these individuals, individuals you've known for, you know, your entire life as long as it feeds into your ideology, your dream of this peaceful end. So it's like, that's that's pretty wicked, man.

Jacci: 01:05:24

Yeah. And like to Willie's point too, we talked about what he found that was similar to all his. I found out what's similar in mine for my villains is they're like just professional gaslighters, dude. They fucking love the gaslighting life, man. And they're really good at it until they're not.

Mac: 01:05:45

That that emotional manipulation because like you said, with with Obito and and Kakashi and and bro, just just dragging that down to where you thought like when Obito shows up with the mask, you're like, oh, he's the bad guy. Yeah. And then he does the jujitsu to reanimate fucking Madara. And you're like, this is Madara.

Jacci: 01:06:05

Yeah.

Mac: 01:06:05

But then they have the, man. It it's I try to tell but that's why Naruto is my shit. It gets a lot of shit because of all the fillers, man. But once you figure out which episodes to skip

Jacci: 01:06:15

Once you

Jacci: 01:06:15

caught the fillers, man.

Jacci: 01:06:16

Yeah, dude.

Mac: 01:06:17

Get the fuck on.

Jacci: 01:06:18

Boom. Boom. Boom. Boom. Boom.

Mac: 01:06:19

Action. Total nonstop action out here. Okay. Alright, Eric. Love it.

Mac: 01:06:26

What you got? Number two.

Jacci: 01:06:27

Keep talking, Eric. I gotta peep.

EJ: 01:06:29

Alright. Should I wait?

Mac: 01:06:36

No. It's

Jacci: 01:06:37

No. Go ahead. Go ahead.

EJ: 01:06:38

No. No. You're on it. Okay. Oh.

EJ: 01:06:40

So my next villain is Tetsuo from Akira.

Mac: 01:06:46

Classic. Vintage

EJ: 01:06:48

And the thing is is like the reason I picked him is because you watch him become a villain. He's not a villain in the beginning. Nope. All of us have that one friend that may be just a little bit socially awkward or a little bit socially disconnected or nerdy that can't relate to people a lot and gets that level of frustration. So in this, Tetsuo is that guy, and from the very get go, he can't, he's the kind of guy that can't really stand up for himself or anything, so you see this building, You know, it's building on him.

EJ: 01:07:26

It's frustration and anger and disappointment and guilt all building on him, and when the accident happens and he starts to slowly gain these abilities, which, I mean, to me are like energy absorbing and reality warping to a level of instantaneous reality warping of and absorb it all. It's almost like the limitations are only by his own mind, but you could tell this evil energy that's becoming part of him is feeding on all those insecurities and guilt and whatever, so he slowly starts to separate from being Tetsuo in the beginning who has friends and cares about these other people, and then you notice he gets more and more driven towards this darkness. It's like you're watching the evolution of an individual with all this built up angst and hurt turn into this ultimate evil, even in the face of a friend who's been protecting him his whole life. And it comes down to this friend that he's known his whole life who kinda has always been there to protect him against bullies and whatnot. It comes down to a showdown between the two of them.

EJ: 01:08:42

And this evil is pulsating through Tetsuo, and Tetsuo has so much power. And there's multiple times if you're watching, it shows how evil or the level of evil Tetsuo gets to. Because in the very beginning, he has the power to kill his buddy, okay, he could.

Mac: 01:08:59

I 100% get

EJ: 01:09:00

go when he first escapes. When he first escapes, he's still strong enough, I mean, you see him do things like destroying military equipment like just like that. He coulda killed his buddy, but he didn't. And then the next time he hurts him, but he doesn't kill him. But in the end, when their confrontation is like, this is the point where his friend's like, I'm gonna stop him.

EJ: 01:09:22

Have to stop him. I know him. You know? But Tetsuo's no longer the guy he remembers. He's now gone completely over.

EJ: 01:09:31

And it could be all this energy that he's absorbing, the matter and stuff that he's absorbing, you could see the pain in his body as his body starts to become more and more disfigured. It's almost like the journey through becoming evil shows in the transformation in his own body. Like, in the very end, he's so twisted and far from what he was in the very beginning, which, like, mirrors his ascension to evil. And I mean, the very end, there is no saving Tetsuo, but it's like like I said in the very beginning, he's not really a villain. He's just a kid who's been downtrodden his whole life.

Mac: 01:10:09

His whole life, yeah.

EJ: 01:10:10

Tough guy. Yeah. But now, once he gets that power, he gets to a point where he's like, yo, fuck that. I'm not getting stepped on anymore. But then instead of it just being I'm gonna just stand up for myself, it starts to grow to the I'm gonna punish everyone else, I'm gonna get even, you know, and it just keeps getting darker and darker.

EJ: 01:10:30

And in the end, it's almost like his pain and the power that's surging through him has gotten to the point where can do nothing more than just he has to release it and destroy things in order to almost appease that pain inside of him. And I just, like I said, Akira is a beautiful movie. I mean, from start to finish, we're talking back when they were still hand painting each frame, and this movie still stands to this day as being immaculate. The art is just the tracing, like you could see it when they're riding their bikes through Neo Tokyo and they're just like, you see the lights on their motorcycles and their cyber bikes, it's like, it was so beautiful, but at the same time, it gets so visibly harsh and torturous when you're watching Tetsuo change through time, like when he has to, he becomes, his arm gets entangled and becomes more so than metal, and you see his flesh and the metal bonding together, and then as he's starting to grow, it's like you're watching this, all the matter that he's absorbing and energy he's absorbing is slowly ripping its way through him, becoming into this monstrosity.

EJ: 01:11:50

It's like an abomination. But it's all the evil that's just coming through him. I mean, I liked it because, like I said, you're watching the total evolution of a normal person becoming the, like, personification of evil, You know? And it it it gets worse as it goes on, but each step you get to see, you know, Tetsuo become less human and more of this this new entity that's the the the host of this energy, this dark energy from from an unknown, you know, origin of space or darkness, it's just in him. And I thought that they represented it so well and just the the, like, later as his body, the biological parts of his body just start consuming everything around him.

EJ: 01:12:39

It's almost like that's the only thing that's keeping or the only thing that's driving him now is to just consume, almost like he wants to spread the pain that he's feeling to everything. So like I said, Tutsu is a from beginning. In the beginning, you're kinda thinking it's gonna be some sort of just cyberpunk criminal crime thing, but then as soon as the the paranormal stuff kicks off, the psychic energy and everything going to the point of you're seeing these individuals that have the similar psychic powers, but they're like slightly slightly changed or altered or disfigured humanoids, but Tetsuo's completely different. Even they seem shocked by it. The level of power surging through him shocks these beings who have always had this ability.

EJ: 01:13:33

So I mean, I wanted to have one of my selections be someone that you could relate to in the beginning because we've all seen that individual, know that individual. Maybe some of us have been that individual where life has been hard on you and you've always been kind of under the boot, but he's always had that friend or friends that have been there to try to kind of take care of him. But as he starts to become darker, he turns some of that anger and mal intent towards even those that have been there for him his whole life. That's when you know he's no longer Tetsuo that they knew. So I thought it was a brilliant brilliant display of the total realization of normal to villain.

EJ: 01:14:25

So that's why I.

Mac: 01:14:28

Yeah. That's a that's a good pick by you. And looking at looking at him in the movie, it's he he was just you're looking at the crew he's rolling with, like he was looked at like the run, you know what I'm saying? Of the group, you know? Yeah.

Mac: 01:14:47

His whole life kind of just looked down upon, you know, he rolled with, you know, the group and everything, but you can kinda see now that he has this power, he's just like almost, I don't wanna say Napoleon complex, but like, all my life this is how I was treated, now I'm a show you. But then when he starts losing control of it and knowing that it's taking over him and he can't do anything about it, you start feeling for him because, you know, he doesn't want it to get to the point of where it's getting to, but he can't control it at that point. So it's like when you're watching the movie and if you haven't seen Akira yet like this, think you could any streaming thing at this point, you could just check it out, rent it for like $2, watch it, whatever.

Jacci: 01:15:38

Yeah, it's a really

Mac: 01:15:39

good It's an amazing movie like-

Jacci: 01:15:41

And it's referenced and also so

EJ: 01:15:44

much in

Mac: 01:15:44

our

EJ: 01:15:44

Pop culture.

Mac: 01:15:45

It's pop culture. It- A real,

Jacci: 01:15:48

like videos, other animes, just- I think Kanye, like, references Akira a lot.

Mac: 01:15:54

And the stronger video, all of that stuff. But, like you said, it's one of those where you watch it and you're like, I understand why he feels the way he feels. I understand, hey, you got a taste of this power. Now people can't look down on you anymore. You could tell, like, the minute he put that cape on, it's like, now I'm in charge.

Mac: 01:16:19

Now I can call the shots. The first time in his life, I can call the shots. I can tell you guys what's up. Know, because somebody who's been downtrodden his whole life, you give him this little bit of power, like what do you expect him to do? Like, there's people in life that just feel like they're just the middle man, the low guy, the stepping stone for people being in CEO positions and people getting promoted off the work you do.

Mac: 01:16:46

You can relate to this guy. Like if I get the chance, you know, not to say to do the stuff he did with those powers, like if I had the chance to like position myself to get above those that stepped on my back to get where they're at, I would do that. And that's kind of what Touch was doing. So, of relatable.

EJ: 01:17:07

You're absolutely right. It's like, at first he's just like, now I can take care of you or now I'm the big dog and you know, but then as he uses the powers and it starts to corrupt him more and he's going through more changes, you're right. He starts to show off like, I'm the big dog now, You know, and it starts to like totally consume him. Where in the beginning it was just like, Oh cool, I could do this. I'm the cool guy of the group now.

EJ: 01:17:33

But then as it grows, it's no longer I'm the cool guy of the group. He just wants everyone to get the fuck away. Know, it's like, I just want them all to die. I want them all to suffer like I suffer.

Mac: 01:17:43

You

EJ: 01:17:43

know, and it's terrible. But, yeah. I think that he's a, he's a, he's a, the whole movie and him are a great representation and a huge influence on a lot of cyberpunk or dystopian future. Yeah. Animes even to today.

EJ: 01:18:03

And a lot of the characters I see you see the opposite effect, like, as far as like Dan to Dan, you know, you got Oprah's reminds me of Tetsuo in the in the very beginning. You know, like the the kid who's just not the tough guy. Yeah. He's he's he's kind of like the the the low low guy in a totem pole. But, instead when he starts to become empowered though, his comes in a in a sense that he wants to help and protect.

EJ: 01:18:33

So, you know, maybe Tetsuo was corrupted by whatever he faced as a as a young man and it just came to fruition but you know, regardless, the transformation is is is you see it played out and it's beautiful.

Jacci: 01:18:49

Beautiful. Do you if he wasn't as emotionally unstable as he was? Because he's a teenager. Right? So Yeah.

Jacci: 01:18:56

His brain is still developing. So even his ability to still understand and yes, he understands right from wrong, but he's still a teenager, as a child, understanding the real world consequences of power. Do you think if he actually, let's say he's like a 30 year old that experienced this power, but he wasn't emotionally unstable and he like thought more about the power? Do you think it still would have gone the way that it went?

Mac: 01:19:26

Me, I would say because I I've read some some pieces where, you know, they they say it's like a a mental not a mental disorder, but the inferiority core inferiority complex that he had his whole Like, no matter how old he got, he always was gonna be looked at as less than than the people around him. Right?

EJ: 01:19:46

Yeah.

Mac: 01:19:47

Just based on his height, his attitude, his his behavior and stuff. And, I mean, you see don't get political, but, like, people still do roll off a eagle. So the minute you get some kind of power, and and we see it in in the country today, people get in a certain position, get a certain power. They feel they could do certain things without consequence. I think the same would have happened.

Mac: 01:20:16

I don't know if the relationship between, you know, him and oh, shit. What's the

EJ: 01:20:23

I gotta look real quick. I keep forgetting.

Mac: 01:20:25

What's Homeboy's name?

EJ: 01:20:26

The fucking

Jacci: 01:20:27

I was, like, looking up some stuff.

Mac: 01:20:28

Good guy's name. The the fucking his his homeboy's It's hug,

EJ: 01:20:32

but it's his friend.

Mac: 01:20:34

Shit. Let me I'm sorry, guys. Like, it's been so long since I saw you.

EJ: 01:20:38

Nana. Right? Or Nana. Yes.

Mac: 01:20:41

Yes. Okay. Yeah. If if that relationship throughout the twenties and possibly thirties, like you're talking about, Jackie, if if that would have changed it, you know, more time with him and and, you know, Kanada growing up and get in maturing and looking at him and being able to prop provide some advice. But I I think just I don't know.

Mac: 01:21:03

It's not I think I think he still would have done the same thing, because, like and it like, the powers just take control over him. It's not like he's always able to control them. Like, so it's Right. Yeah. It was a latent thing that happened

EJ: 01:21:19

after Yeah.

Mac: 01:21:20

After the accident. They took him to the lab and then awakened all the powers in him. And Yeah. Like, I don't think he ever had time to, like, hone them and control them. Like, if he was Or

Jacci: 01:21:29

even think about it.

Mac: 01:21:30

Yeah. So, like, just anybody who just I don't care what age you are. I feel like if you just woke up and you realized you had this kind of power, like, without being able to take the time to hone it and control it, almost like a X Men. Like, you know, if Rogue just never knew her power, she's just fucking everybody out here. You know?

Jacci: 01:21:48

Well, that's why yeah. Before too in X Men, like, we go to the time change timeline change, she actually has her powers. She kept them. Whereas in the original, she was like, I can't do this anymore. Like, I yeah.

Mac: 01:22:03

I wanna get this shot and get get rid these powers. Yeah.

EJ: 01:22:06

And I mean, I know this is kind of the darker look at it, but when you think about a lot of these high school situations, especially the ones where kids end up turning to violence and bringing violence to school, a lot of it's the same thing. The kid was

Jacci: 01:22:19

That's what I was thinking about.

Mac: 01:22:20

That's why

Jacci: 01:22:20

I was like

EJ: 01:22:21

anywhere in their life. They can't see beyond it. It could be because they're in a teenage mind. They think everything is right now. You know, in Tetsuos, it probably might be the same way.

EJ: 01:22:30

Like, this is the whole world. They can't see that in five years no one's gonna give a shit about the ninth grade. Dang. But those kids that like, you know, like, terribly as terrible as it is, it's kinda like the Columbine kids, they felt empowered when they got their guns and they were out shooting and stuff. They felt powerful and probably some level of stress relief when they were out doing that.

EJ: 01:22:51

So then they immaturely looked at and kind of equate the two together, and the reason why I feel like they come to the realization too late is a lot of these individuals who do terrible things after being stepped on for so long, they end up turning on themselves in the end. And it's kind of the same thing with Akira. In the end, he's so far gone, it's almost as if the power turns on himself because he's become, there's nothing of Tetsuo left.

Mac: 01:23:23

Yeah, it's just

EJ: 01:23:24

You know? Just a monstrosity. And I kinda look at it like it's a good question you brought up, Jackie, because if you look at like, this is totally out there, but in The Watchman, Doctor Manhattan, okay, you could kinda say he's on the same level as Tetsuo, okay, he could do almost anything, but he even gets to a certain point where he goes off to another planet just to contemplate things because he's so far beyond the power that we can comprehend on this level. So I think no matter what, with unlimited power and all consuming power, there is no eventuality where you're gonna be have a normal life again.

Jacci: 01:24:11

With great power comes great responsibilities.

Mac: 01:24:14

I mean

Jacci: 01:24:14

Spider Man's uncle wasn't there for him.

EJ: 01:24:16

Yeah. They had no Uncle Ben. But I mean, you're talking about guys who can, you know, rewrite reality in front of you.

Mac: 01:24:22

Yeah. Doctor Man, I I think, like, he was aware and more mature and and because the reason he left is because old buddy he possib like, when it comes to comic villains, Osmond Deus or whatever

EJ: 01:24:38

Yeah. He's supposed to be super intelligent.

Mac: 01:24:39

He threw he threw like, he gave radiation poisoning to people that were around doctor Manhattan to make doctor Manhattan feel like he was he was causing it. So that's why he went to Mars. Like

EJ: 01:24:52

Mhmm.

Mac: 01:24:52

He was like, how do I get this smart dude away from here so I can do my plan? Oh, blue, blue, blue. And Doc Man's like, I don't wanna kill people. I'm out of here. So that maturity level of like, I don't wanna kill people.

Mac: 01:25:03

I'm a go to Mars. Yeah. And do my shit.

EJ: 01:25:05

Yeah. Had he had a much better grasp on it. Oh, the towers, yeah. His his grip on reality though starts to slip because he's capable of creating his own universe Yeah. In his mind.

Jacci: 01:25:19

And he has the power to do it. Yeah. So That, like, no one else has.

EJ: 01:25:22

Like, he he lost his connection even to his wife.

Mac: 01:25:25

Yeah.

EJ: 01:25:27

You know, because he's capable of being with her and not being with her at the same time. So technically it's like she becomes an afterthought to him. So that's why I mean like even though you you know he's a good man from the beginning and he's a mature man, eventually all, you know, unlimited power always leads to a point where you probably can't exist in a in a way that, you know, the rest of us can anymore. Yeah. Yeah.

EJ: 01:25:55

Don't know if FITZOIL could have ever been normal again.

Mac: 01:26:01

That's a good pick, man.

EJ: 01:26:04

Thanks, man. Thanks.

Mac: 01:26:05

That's good

EJ: 01:26:05

pick. What you got for us?

Mac: 01:26:07

So these two are probably like, could be one A, one B. So what I'm gonna do is I'm a roll a 10 sided die. And if it's even, I'm a talk about another Oh. And if it's odd, I'm a talk about another Roll

Jacci: 01:26:21

four initiative.

EJ: 01:26:23

Mhmm. Got you too.

Mac: 01:26:24

So, okay. It's a eight. So even. Mhmm. So there's an anime called Made in Abyss.

Mac: 01:26:33

You haven't checked it out, I think season or the season one should be on prime. That's where I watched it at. Season

Jacci: 01:26:39

two is

Mac: 01:26:39

on high dive. I don't know if season two has come to another streaming thing, but I watched season two over on high dive. I haven't read the manga, so I'm pretty sure there's there's stuff that I'm missing. But backstory, I don't think it's been a anime that a lot of people talk about. So if you've seen it, you kinda already know what I'm getting to, but if you haven't, cliff notes.

Mac: 01:27:05

There's an island, and abyss shows up out of nowhere. Just a hole going x nobody knows how deep. So all the villages just end up rebuilding along the rim of the abyss, and then they become, what is it, divers, I believe, or spelunkers, kinda a business comes around where they're just like, let's go explore the abyss. Right? So you have people that go down into the abyss to check it out, see what's going on.

Mac: 01:27:42

And unfortunately, they figured out there's a curse in the abyss. Right? For every level you go down, you get some kind of effects. Right? So in the first layer let me see what they're called first.

Mac: 01:27:59

Delvers, okay, Delvers is what it's called. That's profession, so you go down there, find some rare shit, bring it back up to the top, and you're just like, you sell it, you deliver it, all of that stuff, that's how you get like Renown. So the first layer, curse of the abyss is you get mild dizziness, nausea, second layer, intense nausea, headaches, numbness, so continue, continue, it goes down to like the fifth layer, I believe, and then there's layers after that. But each layer progressively gets worse, right? You go down there and if you try to come up, that's when the curse starts fucking with you, right?

Mac: 01:28:40

Or intensifies, right? So if you're down in the fourth layer and try to come back up, this shit fucks with you, right? Now there's people who adapt well to it and they go further and further into the abyss and come up, and then you rank up. So the way it ranks up is the type of whistle you have. I don't have it in front of me, but the guy I'm talking about is Bondrewd.

Mac: 01:29:04

A very, so apparently according to this wiki site, there's seven layers to this stuff. Bondrewd is a white whistle, that's the highest level, that's the epitome, that's like, they're looking at you as like the best of the best when it comes to delving into the abyss, right? This dude, before becoming a delver, was a criminal on the surface, so he was kind of almost banished to the abyss. But he was able to adapt to the lifestyle. And this guy's mind, he's one of those guys that just wants to obtain the most knowledge about something that is unknown to most people.

Mac: 01:29:51

So, the abyss happens, he starts getting into it, learning more and more, and wants to know more and more. He wants to understand this at a level that other people are just like, I didn't, this is gee whiz knowledge, but okay, you know. He wants to be one with the abyss, essentially. To the point where the further he goes, more equipment he needs, the more money he needs to get better stuff to go further into it. He starts finding random plants and and things in the abyss, create certain drugs, certain illegal things, sell them on the black market up on the top, get money to get stuff to go further.

Mac: 01:30:35

Fast forward, he is on the fifth level of the abyss, and the fifth level of the abyss is loss of all senses, confusion, and self harm. Like, you hallucinate, you harm yourself, all of this stuff. He is there so long, he adapts to it, builds a fort. Like, it's legit like a city. It's called I forget what it's called.

Mac: 01:30:59

But he has a whole fort. I'd the idle front. So it's like a it started out as a small, like, little checkpoint for those who are delving. You can check-in there, get, like, supplies and stuff. Turned that shit into a whole fort.

Mac: 01:31:13

Research on point. He all the artifacts he finds as he gets deeper and deeper, he incorporates it into his his gear. This guy is on a level to where he finds a artifact, and I'm not gonna name them all, a certain artifact that grants him the ability to transfer his consciousness into whatever body puts on a helmet that he puts on. Like so if, example, the helmet that he has on this one body, if that body dies, one of the other bodies, he has a name for him. I I forget off the top of my head, will come, pick up the helmet, put it on themselves, and then his consciousness would be in there.

Mac: 01:32:06

So that would be the new Bondrew. Right?

Jacci: 01:32:09

How does he how does he get the body to do that that doesn't have the helmet?

Mac: 01:32:14

Because they're just naturally like, if he if he like, they're just driven. Like, if his consciousness is not in a body, like, a body will go pick it up and put it on. Oh. So he has, I think, several several of them. I think they're called, like, umbral umbral hands or something like that.

Jacci: 01:32:33

Oh, they're just random bodies he's created basically?

Mac: 01:32:35

So he gets dead bodies, and he's just like he induced some of his consciousness in them, and they follow him around. Like, it's a click. It's a click. Like so A click. Yeah.

Mac: 01:32:46

I swear to god. And he's so like, this is this is where Nama start talking about why he's he's up there for me. So the village up at the top, full of orphan children because a lot of parents are like, I'm a go on this this thing, get some stuff, get some money. This is how I support my family. Parents don't come back.

Mac: 01:33:05

A lot of orphan children. He comes up, gets the orphan children, transports them down to his fort, and runs experiments on them. Right?

Jacci: 01:33:14

At level five?

Mac: 01:33:15

Yes. Yes. So you can go down there. Right? So it's when you come up where shit starts fucking with you.

Mac: 01:33:25

Right?

Jacci: 01:33:25

Okay. So so that that level five where you lose sets I've never seen the show. So Right. I've been wanting to watch it because of how interesting people say that it is and how fucked up it is.

Mac: 01:33:34

Right.

Jacci: 01:33:34

Because because me and Steven have been wanting to watch fucked up shows lately. So well, we're just interested in better like, I was like,

Jacci: 01:33:41

I love Shonen and Shoujo, but I was

Jacci: 01:33:43

just I'm looking for a a spotlight that's just like,

Jacci: 01:33:46

what is going?

Mac: 01:33:47

I love it. I love it. You know, I love it. I'm here for it.

Jacci: 01:33:51

So when you get

Jacci: 01:33:51

to that level, you don't actually lose your sense of whatever until you leave?

Mac: 01:33:57

No. Like so I don't like, it doesn't show him transporting them down there. You just see, like, there's kids down there with them. He explains, like, he gets them the orphans from the village up there. So that's kind of a plot hole, I guess.

EJ: 01:34:14

Like, he

Mac: 01:34:14

goes up, gets the kids, comes down, and the kids are chilling. Right? I wanna see a show where that's almost how it came across.

Jacci: 01:34:22

I mean, that was basically what the promised Neverland was, and then they fucked it away in the anime. But I didn't read the manga, but anyway, sorry.

Mac: 01:34:29

Right. So he gets these kids and they're hanging out. And the goddamn it. The wild part is these kids, when they're down there, he is treating them like his own daughters. He he walks with them, teaches them stuff, feeds them, hangs out with them.

Mac: 01:34:47

They they look at him as a father figure, and he uses that relationship to have them do certain things like, hey, come with me over here. I wanna

EJ: 01:34:56

see something And he's experimenting on me.

Mac: 01:34:58

Yep. So there are two individual that that the anime and the the manga focus on. Right? So there are two little girls that come down, and Nat Nana Nanachi is one and Mitti is the other. Right?

Mac: 01:35:20

So they're hanging out, and Banjoo just is like, hey, Mitti. Come holler at me. I wanna show you something real quick. She's like, alright, dad. Cool.

Mac: 01:35:28

And Nanachi is kind of suspicious, you know, because she knows he takes people to this room and they don't come back. So she's following her friend in there, and, of course, she goes in there and there's an experiment. There's a tube that he has her friend and Mitti in, and Nanachi shows up and he's like, Well, you can go on this other tube, boom. You know, it's wild. This tube descends the girls, the children into the sixth level of the abyss, right?

Mac: 01:36:02

Oh. And then brings them back up to the fifth level, which then kinda expedites the effects of the curse.

Jacci: 01:36:11

So you experience the curse when you come back up a level, not when you have a surface, it's as you go up levels.

Mac: 01:36:17

So as they're

Jacci: 01:36:17

coming But he's basically using them as a way to figure out what the levels are.

Mac: 01:36:21

Right. So they're coming up.

Jacci: 01:36:24

That's just fucked up.

Mac: 01:36:25

And Midi Midi is like legit liquifying into something wild. And Nanachi, she's getting affected, but her physical appearance is changing. So she ends up looking like a rabbit hybrid type thing. But because they came back up, Midi, who's this little gelatin deformed girl is now immortal. Like they try to kill her to put her out of her misery, but she can't die.

EJ: 01:36:53

Miserable and immortal.

Mac: 01:36:55

Right. So Nanachi She's

Jacci: 01:36:57

nothing more than that, with eyes.

Mac: 01:37:00

Nanachi picks her up and they bounce, right? She's like, We're getting out of this place, this dude's crazy, I can't fuck with this guy no more, right?

EJ: 01:37:07

In

Mac: 01:37:08

the meantime, he has a smaller, a younger girl that's almost his daughter. They look at it like, this is his daughter, on his shoulder, carries her everywhere, all of that good Oh

Jacci: 01:37:22

my gosh.

Mac: 01:37:25

And you know, so Nenichi and Midi, they go out, they're hiding out and that's when the main characters come down. Forget their name. Reg is the kind of like the I don't know if you've seen trailers for it, but he's like an android kind of humanoid that can kinda that's helping the the main character, Rico, make it through the abyss. Right? So Rico and Reg come through.

Mac: 01:37:51

Rico is starting to feel some of the effects of the abyss because she's been down there so long. So like, the longer you're down there, it'll affect you, but like if you try to go up, like I said, ascend back up to the top, it expedites the effect of the curse. So they've been down there for a while, she's feeling some effects. They've been attacked by random monsters down there. Reg has a arm cannon that has a powerful weapon, and she's like, can you please put my friend out of her misery?

Mac: 01:38:20

Right? So it's the only weapon that can knock her. So she does it. It's a sad episode. Go back to the fort and they see Bondrewd.

Mac: 01:38:31

Bondrewd is so intelligent. He treats everybody with the utmost respect. Right? He's the dude, he's the kind of guy like

Jacci: 01:38:42

Gaslighting, man.

Mac: 01:38:43

He's the kind of guy where, it's not even gaslighting, he's literally respectful of everybody, but he just wants to learn. Like, he will sacrifice somebody to learn something and he'll be like, thank you for your sacrifice.

Jacci: 01:38:58

But that's gaslighting. Like making them think they're doing something He's sitting next to But it's really all for his own selfish But

Mac: 01:39:06

he, in his mind, he's thinking that the knowledge he's getting, he's gonna send and it's gonna help people understand the abyss better.

EJ: 01:39:13

Like to unlock the abyss.

Jacci: 01:39:15

It's all he's There's gonna be no one left.

Mac: 01:39:18

Jackie, now you're on it. Now you're on it. So, like there's a whole thing, right? He takes Reg, like he sees what his capabilities are and he's like, I wanna experiment on you and see what the fuck's going on. Nanachi doesn't like that, she interrupts.

Mac: 01:39:39

You know, chaos, like conflict happens. Fast forward, they're just like, Bonjourd is not a good dude. He's experimenting on these kids and they start fighting. So they start having this fight. It's him and his Umbrahands, I believe that's the name of his crew, they're out there.

Mac: 01:39:59

He's fighting Reg and Nanachi's just hiding out. So he's fighting Reg, Reg gets the best of him one time and he dies, right? One of the Umbral Heads come and puts the helmet on. That's when you figure out like, oh shit, this motherfucker is just like you can't get rid of him. He has cartridges that allow him to stay down there that long without the curse affecting him.

Mac: 01:40:29

The cartridges, oh my god. The cartridges are the organs, the life sustaining organs from the kids that he brings down. He he cuts them out of the kids, puts them into these cartridges, puts them into a suit that keep him sustained in fighting off the curse. So he just keeps bringing orphans down to harvest organs to put them in cartridges to keep him going. You find

EJ: 01:40:57

Orphans has to be sued.

Mac: 01:40:59

You find that out because during the fight, and here's the wild part, every time he ejects a cartridge, right, he thanks the child organs, right? So he'll pop it out and be like, thank you, blah blah blah, right? So as he's doing the fight, he ejects a cartridge and it's the little girl that he has on his shoulders and was like treating almost like a daughter. And the fucking people lose it, right? They're just like, this is fucking it, right?

Mac: 01:41:30

So it's it's it's the the accumulation of all of that stuff. Like, you appreciate the curiosity, the the wanting to understand the unknown, the getting the information to better understand this thing that just appeared in their town to better, I guess, possibly figure out a way to inhabit it. So, you know, like, I

Jacci: 01:41:52

understand your thirst of Well, I'm just leave.

Jacci: 01:41:55

Like, isn't there a world? I don't understand

Mac: 01:41:57

the of but how he's go the the risk he's willing to take to get that Not about all

Jacci: 01:42:03

these other people. Like, why don't they just go, let's go, like, start a new It's a Subvert.

Mac: 01:42:09

Don't know. It's like when you watch it, you see kinda the island it's on, and then, like, bam, there's a hole. And like ocean all over the place. Like, if you wanna get on a boat and try to do it I thought

Jacci: 01:42:20

it was just like, you

Mac: 01:42:20

know, I'm like, It's like an island, and then bam, like a fucking abyss that goes down who knows how far. So, but, yeah, the fact that this man his thirst for knowledge is to the point where he's willing to risk the life of anybody to get it, especially kids, orphans, to treat them like, hey, I'm here to take care of you.

Jacci: 01:42:42

I'm your dad.

EJ: 01:42:43

I'm your

Mac: 01:42:43

dad now. Hey, come in this room with me if you don't come back.

EJ: 01:42:47

Mommy's cartridge's dad.

Mac: 01:42:49

That is it's crazy. But he's so smart. Like, he finds these artifacts that nobody has seen. He studies them, learns their possibilities. Like, his suit is a artifact.

Mac: 01:43:00

Like, he found an artifact, turned it into a suit that allows him to do the things that he's doing. He found an artifact he turned into a weapon that helps him, like, one shot these these monsters that are down here in the abyss. He finds the helmet that he's wearing is a artifact. Like this shit, like he he shoots a light beam out of it that almost always hits its target. Like, until he fought Reggie, like, that was like, it's a one shot kill.

Mac: 01:43:27

Like, if he shoots this shit, you're fucking done. But Reg, because he was, like, a a android half robot, like, he was he was able to go toe for toe with him. Like, it was a bad it was a drawn out fight. And the fact that this body is not really him, the white whistle that he has, you got to the way it's formed, you have to provide some, like, rare material for them to form it out of. This dude sacrificed his own body to become the fucking white whistle that he has, and the suit is like it it's another body that has his

Jacci: 01:44:00

So he doesn't even actually exist really? His conscience is the only thing that's existing. That's crazy.

Mac: 01:44:08

Bondrewd is like We have to watch

Jacci: 01:44:10

the show.

Mac: 01:44:11

When you watch top anime villains list, like, dude is, like, in everybody's top three.

Jacci: 01:44:19

Yeah. When I was looking that up, like, I was just there's it sucks because there's so many like anime that I was like, damn, I actually haven't seen these a lot of this for these villains. Like, I haven't seen Vinland Saga or Berserk and like all this stuff.

Mac: 01:44:33

CJ, I was looking at your comments the whole time, but I was just trying to trying to trying to trying to relay, like, how fucked up Bondrewd is. Yeah. But how like, you'll look at video essays and peep some people will say he is the most well written villain in anime, which is like

Jacci: 01:44:51

That's crazy.

Mac: 01:44:52

Which is opinionated. Right?

Jacci: 01:44:53

That's you know, that's so frustrating that then that this anime is only available then on two different platforms. Like, why is this not on, like, anything else? I'm looking at

Mac: 01:45:05

Crunchyroll Man,

EJ: 01:45:06

like, for Lazarus, I can't watch Lazarus because I don't have What's that mean? Or Adult Swim.

Mac: 01:45:12

Does it mean

Jacci: 01:45:13

You have HBO Max? HBO Max

Jacci: 01:45:14

or whatever. Oh. Oh, damn.

Mac: 01:45:16

I'll give you After the show, I'll give you my password.

EJ: 01:45:22

No. The the one you're describing reminds me of, like, the the last Guardians of Galaxy movie, the High Evolutionary. How he was all about knowledge and trying to create the perf you know, like but I mean, the things he would do, like the wipe out whole planet, it's like, oh, this one sucked. And he's just like I'm like, so he's willing to do that in the pursuit of knowledge is just like a level of evil because you're it's almost like he doesn't consider himself on the same level as he as he's, you know, as other life. Above them.

Jacci: 01:45:54

Dude Yeah. Because once people can have that power, I feel like it's just like because they know that they can do all these things and no one can stop them, it doesn't matter.

Mac: 01:46:04

Bro, this this dude, like, he would get fucked up in a fight. Right? And congratulate the person like, oh, that's you were able to do this to me and like take notes. Like, he gets fucked up in a fight. He's giving this dude congratulations on that.

Mac: 01:46:24

Like, you're doing Pull

Jacci: 01:46:25

out my

Mac: 01:46:26

Yeah, the thirst for learning has contaminated this.

Jacci: 01:46:31

I'm of way for knowledge

Mac: 01:46:33

and learning and observing has contaminated this dude to the point where like, anything that happens, he's like, Oh, let me. Yeah. And that's how he got to the point where he's

Jacci: 01:46:44

I put out my field notes.

Mac: 01:46:45

Fuck. I'm just like, this dude is just insane. That's crazy. But yeah, that's Bondrew. Number two for, that's crazy number.

Mac: 01:46:53

No.

Jacci: 01:46:53

Good pick. Yeah. That's your number two. Can't wait to hear your number one.

EJ: 01:46:56

I know. That's pretty tough to top, man. That guy's like, I mean, sacrificing.

Jacci: 01:47:03

He's a cheated daughter. Yeah, man.

EJ: 01:47:05

Yeah. That's wild. That's crazy.

Mac: 01:47:09

Alright, Jackie. Damn. Not saying that's a hard act.

EJ: 01:47:13

I'm with it, Jackie. It's time.

Mac: 01:47:16

Know I know you got something for us. What you got, Jackie?

Jacci: 01:47:19

I do. So, this one was tough because again, I had to look up like I know villains, but I was getting stuck between the anti hero and villain too, so I wanna make sure I picked a really good villain. And then obviously Jujutsu Kaisen, new anime came out, I was like, dude, some crazy villains actually have come out of this.

Mac: 01:47:42

Yep.

Jacci: 01:47:43

So I had to think of who I wanted to pick. So my two that I couldn't decide on at first was Sukuna and Mahito. But then I did some more research and looked more into it, and I realized Sukuna was more like he just he's just strong and he's just like, hey, man. Like, I like, I have a I'm just as powerful demon or sorry, curse that, like, you know, if anyone gets in my way, I'll do something, but he won't go out of his way to, like, do things out of amusement or just to fuck with people. Like, that's not what he's gonna do.

Jacci: 01:48:20

Like, he'll he's gonna be at the top, and if anyone tries to defy that, then he'll do something about it. So I decided not to pick him, and I went with Mahito. So I like, it it's funny because I'll we'll watch so much anime. I'll forget some of the things that people do until I go back again and relive the experience that I had to experience with that. And I just realized how much I was like, I forgot how much I freaking hate this dude.

Jacci: 01:48:47

So,

Mac: 01:48:49

yes He rekindled my hate.

Jacci: 01:48:51

For anyone that's hasn't watched Jujutsu Kaisen, please do. It's, like, fantastic. But in Jujutsu Kaisen, there are curses that are born basically from humans in in certain ways, like maybe from jealousy, hatred, fear, sexual desire, whatever the case is. Like, sitting type of, like, thoughts, a curse is gonna be born from that. Depending on how strong that emotion is will depend on how strong that curse is going to be.

Jacci: 01:49:25

Mahito is considered a special grade curse, and he was basically created sorry. I wanna make sure I don't, butcher this. Basically, he was created from human hatred and fear of other humans, which all the humans put together on the earth, that's a lot of fear and hatred that there is because there's a lot of people that fear what they don't understand, and there's a lot of people that hate also what they don't understand. So you just create this being that is just like living life of like a lot of his questions all the time was like, do you think humans have a heart or like a good heart? Because his whole entire, like, power is the ability to understand human souls, and then he can grasp onto those souls and manipulate them and do whatever he wants to them, which is so important because that is truly the essence of humans.

Jacci: 01:50:23

And so the minute that you manipulate or fuck with anyone's soul like that, you are completely fucking with, like, who they are, what they are. And that goes into his, power, which is the transfiguration curse, which is his ability to take a human and just completely transfigure their using their soul that then changes their outward appearance, because supposedly your soul then reflects, like, who you are. And what he does is he transfigures them to show them, like, what they truly are, a bit born of hate and fear. Like, this is what you look like that makes you so hateful and fearful. But, the thing with Mahito is he doesn't do it to try and be like, I'm gonna show what bad people look like.

Jacci: 01:51:05

He's like, this is fun. Let me find this person on the street. You look like you're having a great time enjoying coffee. Let me fuck up your life. And then I'm going to laugh about it and then ask you if you enjoyed that and then kill you.

Jacci: 01:51:21

Or I'm just gonna let you go and then watch another human kill you because it's fun to watch other humans continuously hate and fear each other. And his role starts because he gets so obsessed with the main character, Itadori Yuji, because he tries to transfigure his soul, but he can't because Itadori has another cursed being inside of him that is way more powerful than Mahito. So he can't do anything about it. And because Mahito can't do it, he's like, I couldn't do that. This is awesome.

Jacci: 01:51:54

How can I fuck up this guy's life and just make him absolutely miserable? So he just like, that's his whole goal. But he starts off with another character. He basically manipulates him and transfigures humans. And he says, look at what I can do.

Jacci: 01:52:12

Look at his face. Isn't this funny? And he just finds it absolutely hilarious to do that.

Mac: 01:52:19

Yeah.

Jacci: 01:52:20

And then most notably is the Shibuya arc. And that's when you truly see how evil Mahito is. And I haven't read the manga, so I know it gets worse. But in the Shibuya arc, Itadori obviously shows up and Mahito finds out that he's there. He's like, Oh my gosh, Yuji, where are you?

Jacci: 01:52:43

Let me show you what I can do. Starts off just like all these humans that are in this bubble. He just finds humans. Boom, touches their face. They're transfigured.

Jacci: 01:52:52

Boom, touches their face. Yuji doesn't even realize that there are humans that are these cursed souls that he's killing until Mahito tells him about, Yeah, this guy was just a Yes, I think so. Yeah, in Shibuya arc, yes.

Mac: 01:53:13

Yep.

Jacci: 01:53:14

And he's like, Isn't it crazy? Him and his daughter were over here just hanging out and now look at them and he's just laughing manically. Is that how say that word? And then the way that, because MAPPA is so great at animating, like people who just look psycho with their faces. And he's just like laughing, just grinning as he's like changing people.

Jacci: 01:53:40

And he goes from like, he basically finds a subway. He's like, Itadori, I'm gonna make sure that I really piss you off. So there's a bunch of humans that are just on this subway train and he decides he's gonna start from the beginning and just put his hands out like this, basically high five people's faces as he's running down this subway, transfiguring them to the point where they're just exploding in body parts and blood everywhere as he's running. And he's laughing as he's doing it, having so much fun. He's going through all these different levels in these buildings, just trying to find Itadori, telling him,

Jacci: 01:54:18

Look what I did.

Jacci: 01:54:18

I painted this beautiful picture for you. Come see my artwork. And then it kills two characters and it's one of the saddest deaths. Nanami goes a big one. Oh my gosh.

Jacci: 01:54:39

And then he's laughing. Did you see

Mac: 01:54:41

did you see real quick sorry to interrupt. The, like, the voice actor when he recorded that line?

Jacci: 01:54:49

Mhmm. Nanami?

Mac: 01:54:51

Yeah. And he said that line, and the voice actor was like, well, my time here on the show is the voice actor looks sad as he walks out of the booth because he's just like, my character is bro, was so hurt.

Jacci: 01:55:06

He's like, Itadori, it's your turn. And they just explodes. And Itadori is just sitting there. And then all of a sudden, like, Maitu goes,

Jacci: 01:55:14

woo hoo. Did you see that?

Jacci: 01:55:16

It's like, oh my god. And then he just runs. Right? So now he's going to find his next victim. Right?

Jacci: 01:55:21

Next victim, And I think the worst part and because I rewatched the scene and I was just like, Itadori's freaking out at this point. Right? Like, he's screaming. He's like, get away from her. Don't touch her.

Jacci: 01:55:35

Noubara, watch out. And he's like, watch this. And then he just like goes like slaps right in the face. And then it goes through a whole scene where it's like really sad. And she's like, hey, Tidori.

Jacci: 01:55:45

Tell everyone something. I can't remember. And she explodes.

Mac: 01:55:49

You know the worst part of that was like, Nobara landed a hit on him where you're like, fuck his ass up, And Mahito was like, oh, she's fucking me up. Let me go run and heal up, and then I'm a come back in. Like, he was almost out of here. That that's the part that fucked me up. But go on, Jackie.

Jacci: 01:56:08

I'm sorry.

Mac: 01:56:09

Keep jumping in your shit, but I'll

Jacci: 01:56:10

No.

Jacci: 01:56:10

No. No. You can. You can. Please.

Jacci: 01:56:12

Like, because this is this guy is just so bad. Like, this is when I talk about petty cause I talk about petty for Naraku a little bit. This guy is the ultimate, like one of the pettiest humans, which I did I forgot, like Nanami mentioned something before, long time ago. Was like Mahito is like a child. He's just having fun.

Jacci: 01:56:32

It's the playground to him. He doesn't see humans as anything. Like, most cursed spirits don't, but he doesn't even, like, think. He's just like, this is fun. And that's where, like, the the assumption is maybe he's, like, a younger spirit and that's why.

Jacci: 01:56:47

But he like, after he does that to Nobara and Yuji's just, like, motor mortified, he's like, nice shot. I was like, oh my god.

Mac: 01:57:00

It's a game.

Jacci: 01:57:01

It's like you're sitting here It's a fucking game to him.

Jacci: 01:57:06

It's it's it's a whole game. And, like, not only that, like so he's not just stupid, though. Like, he's not just, like, chaotically doing whatever, and then eventually he's just gonna die. Like, he's also very cunning and intelligent as well. Like, he is able to he's capable of those complex manipulation and strategic thinking for, like, the certain people he's looking for, what he's doing.

Jacci: 01:57:27

He has a purpose for everything, and it's all a lot of it's surrounded with Itadori.

Mac: 01:57:32

You know, as as you're describing it, you know what it reminds me of? The relationship between Joker and Batman. Mhmm. Like, Itadori is Mahito's Batman, and he's trying to get him to fucking spaz out, and he's doing everything to get him to react.

Jacci: 01:57:49

Yes.

Mac: 01:57:50

That that's like, as you're explaining it, I'm just like, it's fucking the comparison is right there.

Jacci: 01:57:56

Yes. And his, like, intentional targeting and tormenting Yuji all the while just smiling the whole time. Like, I will say that even when I did watch the series and I was so pissed, I also had, and I hate using this word for people like this because they're so evil, an appreciation for just this type of villain that was that the creators created because he's just, like, so well written.

Mac: 01:58:24

Give me somebody

Jacci: 01:58:25

to The perfect antagonist, I think. Like, there there's, like, some villains that are more, I think, like, bigger in the grand scheme of the show, but Mahito, just with his pettiness and just, like it's a playground. Just the way that he goes about, like, he just is so excited to, like, watch humans switch, and he's just laughing and excited about it. And he loves seeing other people's reactions to the death and just keeps going to get a rise out of people and is to the most extreme level you could ever think of. I just think he's the most evil person ever.

Jacci: 01:59:00

Like, I get it. He's a spirit, but like at the same time, like, this dude is just it doesn't matter. Like, there is no yes. He was born evil. And that was one of the things, like, that I read.

Jacci: 01:59:12

Like, Secuna chooses to be evil. Like, that that's his route. Like, he's like, nope. I'm evil, and I wanna be evil. That's what I do.

Jacci: 01:59:18

Mahito was born evil. And so that's where, like, some people are like, yeah. But, like, you know, whatever. But, again, like, Mahito on the other hand is just like, yeah. I'm evil.

Jacci: 01:59:30

And now I'm gonna take it to the next level and, like, have freaking fun with this. And it's I don't know. He is one of the most diabolical, hine everything about him is just it's like when you have a sibling that just won't freaking leave you alone because they just keep messing with you because they love it, and they think it's annoying. And the more that you react, the more they just wanna keep going. That is who he is.

Jacci: 01:59:56

And it's just so frustrating to, like, know that once he shows up, you don't know what's gonna happen or what he's gonna do. But at the same time, it it keeps the show interesting and

EJ: 02:00:06

It sounds kinda like the kid with the magnifying glass over at ants. Like, human life is just it's just for

Mac: 02:00:15

Play entertainment.

EJ: 02:00:16

Their torment is his entertainment because he doesn't view them as worth anything. They have no value. Humans are worthless. So Yeah. To wipe them out is easy for him.

EJ: 02:00:28

It's nothing. But then to see the reaction on another human's face at the the loss of that human

Jacci: 02:00:34

Yeah.

EJ: 02:00:34

That's what brings him joy.

Jacci: 02:00:36

Or Dude, dude, the worst the worst part too, and as I forget which episode this is, but it was in a Shibuya arc, Mahito, as soon as he sees Yuji too, he tries to kiss him. This man, ultimate disrespect on

Jacci: 02:00:49

top

Jacci: 02:00:49

of that, tries to kiss Itadori as a joke. So he's not even just like killing people. He's also just like, hi. And then he like pretends to like show him love, if you will, just to mess with him. Like not only does is Yuji like going through whatever psychological, like trauma right now that he's going through, but then like Mahito just adds onto it.

Jacci: 02:01:13

And he's just like, how much more can I like make you feel like you're just breaking apart the seams? And I think it's because Mahito can't do it. So he's just gonna keep figuring out how he can just make him like fall apart. But yeah, that that's why I chose him as my number one. He's absolutely diabolical.

EJ: 02:01:31

He's sick, Yeah.

Jacci: 02:01:33

Just crazy, man. And it's just also on top of the amount of humans that he just decides to change and then thinks it's funny.

EJ: 02:01:40

Levels of carnage just just puts him up there. You know?

Mac: 02:01:44

Yep. Alright, EJ. Number one for you. What you got?

EJ: 02:01:49

Alright. My number one comes from Ninja Scroll, and it's Lord If you haven't seen Ninja Scroll, it's one of those pillars of anime. It really is. It's an amazing movie. It's set in a feudal period in Japan.

EJ: 02:02:11

It centers around swordsman and ninjas. Basically, there's a lot of political turmoil in the in the in the powers that be in fuel Japan at the time. So different dameos and different landowners and lords all have their hands in trying to become the next big shogun, Okay? But the there are overarching powers that are trying to stabilize most of Japan. Okay?

EJ: 02:02:42

In the very beginning, you're introduced to Jubei, who is the hero of the movie. And Jubei and some other great swordsman and assassins and stuff were employed by one of these daimyos for a a job in the past. You see flashbacks through Jubei, and he used to work with Genma. Okay? And the two of them did this operation for the Lord, but as soon as the operation was over, they were told that the Lord wanted them to all kill each other, basically, keep this operation secret.

EJ: 02:03:13

No one walks out alive. Alright? Well, Jubei happened to be the best at all of them, so when they do this fight, he tries very hard to talk them all out of it. He says, we don't need to do this, but they said you know, they go with the honor of hate. My lord's word is law.

EJ: 02:03:29

So he said, we kill each other, we kill each other. So these samurais had a fight. Jubei kills them all, and he kills Gemma. Okay. Gemma was one of the the warriors there.

EJ: 02:03:40

Right? After this, Jubei kinda becomes a Roman and just goes around doing odd jobs to try to take care of himself, but he can't get back into those settings because he's not supposed to be alive anymore. You don't wanna draw the attention of the dameos that, hey. I told you guys to be dead. You're not dead.

EJ: 02:03:58

I'm gonna make sure you are dead. Anyway, he he's going around doing his thing. Alright? And Jubei has been taking odd jobs helping people because he's a he's a very, very accomplished swordsman. Techniques are very important in the Ninja Squirrel movie, and in the series, and everything.

EJ: 02:04:20

As you read the manga and so forth, you start to learn techniques of the swordsman, techniques of the ninjas. Okay, techniques are like the special skills, like Naruto, how they learn different

Mac: 02:04:32

Jiu Jitsus.

EJ: 02:04:33

Yeah, jitsus during their training and so forth, or they expand and get them. This is the same thing, but they're kinda like gifts. So Jubei has this his ability to use a sword is, like, unparalleled to the point where he is able to draw the weapon in. The energy and focus of his attack from the blade can be shot off to a distance. So he can

Mac: 02:04:59

cut

EJ: 02:04:59

something, you see like split stone at like 60 feet away without even touching, okay, by the force of his weapon, or force of his chi through his weapon. Anyway, he's very accomplished. He's going along, and during his travels, he you know, he's helping farmers and stuff. He ends up stumbling across a situation where one of the other characters in the main characters in the story, Gero, who's a a a ninja, works for captured by one of the devils at Kimon. Okay?

EJ: 02:05:37

So they are like these top ninja assassins. Okay? There's a the six devils work together, and they're working for this guy who wants to become the new shadow shogun. Okay? The dark shogun.

EJ: 02:05:48

Okay? He wants to rule from the shadows and become this mighty dude. So he's trying to act you know, take out all these other lords so he can become the top dog. So he hires these six assassins who all have special gifts. Okay?

EJ: 02:06:02

And as as the movie starts, you see the the one of the first conflicts that happened is you got a bunch of these ninjas with Kaguero sent by a dameyo to investigate a a dead village. Alright? So they're going to find out what happened to all these people. Why are all these people dead all at once? They're not chopped up or anything.

EJ: 02:06:20

So these ninjas go on their mission, Kigeru goes with them, and they're going through the forest and they come across one warrior, okay, who is a huge guy. I mean, he's he's like massively, you know, group. He's got this double sided sword that he he spins and throws like a like a hurling, like a giant. It it goes and just chops through everything. He annihilates this entire regiment of ninja in moments, okay?

EJ: 02:06:49

They do everything they can to injure him, but he this devil named Tassai is able to turn his stone or his flesh to stone. So their ability to fight him is pointless. So he ends up defeating them, he captures Kigeru and he starts molesting her and wanting to kill her inside of a shrine. That's how terrible this to Sai dude is. Jubei just happens to be going along the same path and ends up at a shrine because in feudal Japan, they could hang out at shrines kind of like a safe haven.

EJ: 02:07:21

You could just stay the night, like over at a church. So he ends up walking in on tesai in this shrine raping Kaguero. Okay. So he's like, hey. You should let her go.

EJ: 02:07:33

And Tosai's like, hey. Piss off, man. Get out of my face. I'm doing my thing. This has nothing to do with you.

EJ: 02:07:37

Jubei's like, I'd like to, man, but I can't just leave watching you do this to this girl. He's like, if don't leave, I'm a kill you. So Jubei gets in a fight with this dude. And I mean, this is a I mean, Jubei does his, like, freaking sword sword slash blast thing and it just sparks off of his stone skin. And it's like, oh, shit.

EJ: 02:07:55

This guy is fucking for real. So they have this huge fight. And during the fight, I mean, Jubei's getting his ass beat because every time he hits him, it's it's not cutting him and the guy, you know, keep he's he's immensely strong. He's coming up. He's hitting Jubei and Jubei's got a human physique.

EJ: 02:08:11

So it's like, these wounds are making him bleed from his mouth and everything. It's like, damn, I can't just catch a break with this dude. Eventually, as you spoiler alert, Kaguerrero has an ability, a passive ability that she poisons anyone who touches her because she's the poison tester for the daimyo that she serves.

Mac: 02:08:33

Oh.

EJ: 02:08:33

Over the years, she's become toxic. So him molesting her and raping her, he ingested her poison to Tsai's skin starts to fall apart. Jubei kills him. Anyway, this draws the attention of the devils of kimono. Okay?

EJ: 02:08:47

They want Jubei dead now too. Alright? As the story develops though, you're like all these devils, dude, these are badass gifts, man. They have techniques that like the stone skin and the hurled weapon. One has electricity that they shoot with, like, cables that they wrap around someone and then they electrocute him.

EJ: 02:09:04

Another one is disgusting. His back is all got all these holes with these giant hornets that come out of it.

Jacci: 02:09:10

Oh. They're I don't like that.

EJ: 02:09:13

And their eczema, the shadowy

Jacci: 02:09:15

Oh, I hate. All

EJ: 02:09:17

it. Is all these special gifts. Jubei and Jubei and Kagero are like trying to survive and find out what the fuck is going on. You know? Meanwhile, you keep hearing Gemma brought up and Jubei's like, I killed that fool.

EJ: 02:09:30

I'm not worried about it. I killed that fool. And this little monk who's annoying the whole time keeps saying, oh, he learned a special technique, know, a very coveted technique. And Jubei's like, I don't care about technique. I took his head off his shoulders.

EJ: 02:09:42

That motherfucker's dead. Okay? But

Jacci: 02:09:45

Jubei's the main male protagonist.

EJ: 02:09:47

Right? I mean, he's a badass.

Jacci: 02:09:49

And Sugero, you said, is a female?

EJ: 02:09:51

Sugero's the ninja girl. She's also very skilled. So the two of them are teaming up to find out what the fuck's going on, how do we stop these guys and this new shadow shogun, this dark shogun. Okay? Mhmm.

EJ: 02:10:03

So they're trying to figure that all out. Kigeru keeps reporting back to her lord. Anyway, as the story develops, you you start to meet Gemma. Okay? He's just a big dude.

EJ: 02:10:12

He wears a guard arm which is this metal bracer thing that he wears all the way up his arm, but he is a master of martial arts. Okay? But what you learn is Gemma can change his body. And what the old man meant when he was telling Jubei is Gema has control of every cell in his body. He has reached a technique level where when he's fighting, and puts it back on, it comes back to his is

Jacci: 02:10:41

No. So it's not like regeneration, but he's able to

EJ: 02:10:43

like Yume did chop his head off and you see the scar on there. He just put it back on. Gamma can change his appearance too to anyone that he has sampled their flesh. He can look like them. So as the story goes on, you're seeing Gemma's been playing the background as different people.

EJ: 02:11:01

He was pretending to be the Gero's lord, the Damio. That Damio has been dead for a while. It all it all carries on till later on, you're seeing Gemma. Gemma is his level of brutality and ruthlessness is like it's hard to imagine when you're watching. I mean,

Jacci: 02:11:21

he's like heard I thought Ninja Scroll though was like oh, am I thinking of a different one? A different show?

EJ: 02:11:30

It well, it's only a movie, but there is a series that follows Jubei's travels and focuses on a couple other people. It's not nearly as good as the movie. But

Jacci: 02:11:42

I'm thinking of Ninja Kamui.

EJ: 02:11:44

Oh. Oh, yeah. I know

Mac: 02:11:45

what you're

Jacci: 02:11:45

This whole time I was thinking of Ninja Kamui for some reason, but sorry. Keep going. I was like No.

Mac: 02:11:50

Completely different. Anyway Yes.

Jacci: 02:11:53

Sorry. That's why was confused. I was like, I thought never mind.

EJ: 02:11:57

The levels of evil for Gemma I mean, like, I described Toussai and what he did. He killed those people. He was raping that girl. Tisai is nothing in in as far as evil compared to Gemma.

Mac: 02:12:09

Oh

EJ: 02:12:09

my not only sleeping with other members of his team, like, he's having affairs within his own team of these other devils.

Jacci: 02:12:18

Pretend to be a female too sometimes. Exactly. He could be

EJ: 02:12:20

male or female. It's it's really disturbed, but I mean, there's a point in the movie where as the Damio, pretending to be a Damio, she's like having sex with some other woman. He is just the levels of debauchery and and

Jacci: 02:12:40

I have so many shows I can watch

EJ: 02:12:42

as well. Using himself. Like, you see that he doesn't care about anything, and as the movie progresses and you go along, all the devils of Kimon keep fighting Jubei and he keeps taking each one out. It's getting down to just Gemma's left. Okay?

EJ: 02:12:56

Gemma don't even care. These are his people and he doesn't care, and he ends up killing the very guy who hired him so he that guy could become the shadow shogun or whatever. Gema's like, that's a stupid dream, and he just fucking kills the dude. It's like

Jacci: 02:13:11

I get the

EJ: 02:13:11

dream to rule Japan is stupid, and he just fucking kills him, him and all his men. And the final battle between Gemma and Jubei is so good because Gemma is so, I don't know what you call it, high on himself and just feeding into his own ego that he feels he can't be defeated, which technically he can't. Every cell of his body is able to reconstitute himself, so he's unstoppable. Jubay's cutting into pieces. Jubay actually splits him from the top of his head, or from his groin through the top of his head, splits him in half like a loaf of bread, he falls apart.

EJ: 02:13:55

He gets right back up. He's merged back to you. So like but he you could tell he's taking his time. He enjoys brutalizing Jubei.

Jacci: 02:14:04

Dude, I'm like reading some Reddit stuff right now, and like

EJ: 02:14:09

The reason I picked him is like the level of eat like evil. When you watch, you know Gema can kill a man with one hit. It shows it in other parts of the movie, okay? But when he's fighting some of these guys, or especially when he's fighting Jubei, he's fighting to enjoy hurting him, like the pain inflicting on him. The death all around him, he's enjoying every moment of it, and he and he's so high on himself and his own invulnerability that you're just so frustrated watching him.

EJ: 02:14:42

You're like, come on, Jubei. Come on, you gotta be able to kill him. Jubei's doing everything, man. To take the worst part is Jubei's fighting him and they're and they're both gonna die. Basically, they're on a burning ship that's sinking.

EJ: 02:15:01

But I don't wanna ruin the end because but everybody's probably seen it. Don't wanna throw a spoiler at

Jacci: 02:15:06

I haven't seen it, and I and I do wanna watch it.

EJ: 02:15:08

But if you get a chance, it's a two hour movie, and the the bad guys in this movie are great, and just to just when you see how powerful each of these devils of Kimon are, to know that Gemma was their leader lets you know just how powerful he was.

Jacci: 02:15:23

Facts. Yeah.

EJ: 02:15:24

Because T'Sai, like I said, could turn to stone and could throw his hurling sword and just butcher dudes like dozens at a time. The electrical guy could kill you without you even knowing he's there. There's a girl that causes explosions, there's the guy with the hornets, there's the shadow guy, all of them are bet and then there's this blind swordsman who is better than Jubei. When they fight, it's one of the best fights in anime, sword fighting. Facts.

EJ: 02:15:50

It is so awesome. Because you're the guy is hearing

Jacci: 02:15:53

From the movie? Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

EJ: 02:15:55

Oh my god. That fight between those two is brilliant. It's a blind swordsman and Jubei fighting in a bamboo port. Is awesome.

Jacci: 02:16:03

I'm reading some of the Reddit stuff and there's I think I know why I never watched some of this stuff. I because it's nineties. So I get why though I haven't because one of the comments in the Reddit forum is I borrowed this movie on VHS to watch for the first time. I was on lunch break at my retail shop, and I popped it in the break room television to watch a little.

Mac: 02:16:23

Bad

Jacci: 02:16:23

movie. Totally was not expecting the monster rape scene to play for everyone in the movie.

Mac: 02:16:31

There's

Mac: 02:16:31

multiple

Mac: 02:16:32

adult scenes

EJ: 02:16:30

that movie.

Mac: 02:16:31

TVMA. That's why I never watched it. TVMA.

Jacci: 02:16:35

Only because I was so young when anime came out.

Jacci: 02:16:37

I wasn't watching shit like that.

EJ: 02:16:39

Plus, I I my favorite character in the whole thing is Kagero. Kagero's story is so sad, but so wonderful.

Jacci: 02:16:46

As a female?

EJ: 02:16:48

Yeah. The female ninja. Because she's a poison tester, she's never known love. She can't touch another she can't kiss another man. You know?

Jacci: 02:16:58

Because of her poison ability or whatever? That's She

EJ: 02:17:01

and her and Jubei start to to have feelings for each other. Just before the, you know, things could get better, Gemma kills her ass right in front of Jimmy. It's like

Jacci: 02:17:12

Oh my god.

EJ: 02:17:12

You're just so pissed off because you're like, she's finally, you know, she's she's happy. She's found someone

Mac: 02:17:17

that's like be together forever.

EJ: 02:17:20

And she gets and he just kills her ass.

Jacci: 02:17:22

Wait. Eddie, that's what men do. They're like, nope. Don't want it. Don't wanna see it.

Mac: 02:17:27

It's terrible. Cycle for life, my boy.

EJ: 02:17:30

New adult scenes in the movie, and Gemma has his adult scene in

Jacci: 02:17:33

the Dude.

EJ: 02:17:34

Scenes in the movie. But Gemma is a true bastard in every sense of the term when you watch I mean, the just the the way he treats his own people, dude. It's just fucking mouth.

Jacci: 02:17:48

I have to say that there's this other comment on the Reddit app that said or Reddit forum that says, I too remember my first fap.

Mac: 02:17:58

Hey. What was that? How old was I? I was like, probably like 10, 11 or something like that. This rolls out.

Mac: 02:18:08

Know, because my dad was in the anime. Well, we didn't have the VHS, but my older brother, who at the time was like 12, 13, he knows a guy who knows a guy, he brought it home and like, listen, it was the night of the Marine Corps ball. My dad and mom are gone. He's like, bro, we're about to watch this. Life has changed.

EJ: 02:18:35

I mean the snake woman. Ben Isato. It

Mac: 02:18:41

is weird because you get hella uncomfortable watching this like my older brother is there and he's there and I'm just like, well, we both know we both know how the seat is making us feel. Yeah. And

EJ: 02:18:54

it's one of those that you know, that's the time when your parent walks in or something. You're just like, bro,

Mac: 02:18:59

If it was not. No, it's not.

EJ: 02:19:01

It's not like that.

Mac: 02:19:02

If it was not for the Marine Corps ball being as long as it was, we would.

Jacci: 02:19:06

Dude, I'm on the

Jacci: 02:19:06

bathroom and I'm hearing what you're

Jacci: 02:19:08

saying about you and your brother and I'm dying.

Mac: 02:19:11

He's on one couch. I'm on the sofa and we're watching like the action is dope. We're like, oh, look at the fucking. Oh, head cut off and and then like sex starts happening. You're like

EJ: 02:19:19

It's like

Jacci: 02:19:20

So when you leave your brother, it's like, should we, like, go in another

Mac: 02:19:23

Oh, yeah. Thing separately.

EJ: 02:19:24

Like, we separate? Neither one. Nobody watches. I'm hoping nobody watches porn with their brother.

Mac: 02:19:30

I feel

Jacci: 02:19:30

like we feel like we both need a moment and then we can come back

Mac: 02:19:33

and reconvene. We'll reconvene.

EJ: 02:19:35

Right there and you're like, this is something that's not supposed to happen. This is a

Jacci: 02:19:40

Oh, that's funny, man.

Mac: 02:19:41

So are you going into the bathroom first, or who's who's who's do I pause it and wait for you to come back, or how's this working?

Jacci: 02:19:49

Who's leaving first?

Mac: 02:19:51

So, anyway Staying here.

EJ: 02:19:52

Check it out. Gemma is a Oh,

Jacci: 02:19:55

that's funny.

EJ: 02:19:56

Great villain as far as, like, being

Jacci: 02:19:59

Oh, I gotta watch this movie, man.

EJ: 02:20:01

Redeeming qualities at all. I mean, there is nothing about this man. Even the woman the women that he's sleeping with, he could give two shits about. He kills one of them. He doesn't care about the other.

EJ: 02:20:14

He is terrible to friends, foes, allies, everything. Does not care. I mean, there is the he is the villain with absolutely no loyalty. No loyalty, no honor at all. And it it it blows your mind because it's a you know, it's set in such an honor based society, the the feudal Japan where, you know, these guys are willing to die because their lord said to die.

EJ: 02:20:38

They were gonna kill each other because Lord said to you, or I'm gonna kill myself because I failed. And Gemma's out there like, I ain't doing none of that shit. I'm just killing all y'all and collecting this gold. It's like selfishness,

Mac: 02:20:53

know, disbelief.

Jacci: 02:20:54

That's probably realistically, like, without the powers, what happened back in, like, feudal anything, like, back in the day,

EJ: 02:21:01

like Yeah.

Mac: 02:21:02

So I'm make them

EJ: 02:21:04

out on top because they have no nothing to anchor them. They have no weaknesses because they don't give shit about anybody else. Else is subject to dying for all I care as long as I succeed. That's all he cared about.

Mac: 02:21:17

As long

Jacci: 02:21:17

as I plant my seed.

EJ: 02:21:19

And the whole movie is really I mean, the whole story is good, the mystery's good. Yeah. I don't know if he can plant seed, but if he

Mac: 02:21:26

does, good

EJ: 02:21:27

god. Let's not see. He's just

Jacci: 02:21:29

plant he's planting kidney stones. That's what he's planting.

EJ: 02:21:31

Yeah. He's planting something. But yeah. Check it out if you get a chance, Jackie. I think you you and Steven might would like it.

EJ: 02:21:40

It's a little bit on the darker side, but it's

Mac: 02:21:44

I mean, you're both adults now, so it's cool.

EJ: 02:21:47

Yeah. You're both adults.

Jacci: 02:21:48

I know adult sounds when you watch it. But, yeah, that that makes sense why I never watched it.

EJ: 02:21:53

Yikes. Yeah. But it is very violent. Very violent. Lots of blood and gore.

Jacci: 02:21:58

I love the blood and gore though, always.

EJ: 02:22:01

So you'll you'll be with it. But that was my my number one

Jacci: 02:22:05

Man, that was a good one.

EJ: 02:22:06

Some crap. So what do you got for us, Willy?

Jacci: 02:22:09

That was a good one.

Mac: 02:22:10

So like I said, my last two were like one a, one b. So since I already talked about Bondrewd, this one is also probably in a lot of people's top five for villains. It is Griffith from Berserk. And I'm talking about nineties Berserk '97, like the hand drawn animated. There's even, like, a a better done CGI version of it on Amazon Prime or you it's actually on Crunchyroll.

Mac: 02:22:39

You just type the golden age, and it'll come up, and you can watch it. Okay.

Jacci: 02:22:44

It's so is that like it's just a remake? Is it the same story?

Mac: 02:22:48

It's the it's the story before the berserk twenty seventeen or 2016 that was all full CGI. So when you watch twenty sixteen, like, Guts is already out there with the one arm slashing people with the big sword and all of that stuff, looking for Griffith. Right? The golden age is the kinda you see Guts being the mercenary, raiding a town, The band of hawks show up with Griffith and Casca and the rest of the the the crew. And they see they see Guts.

Mac: 02:23:21

They chase him down. Casca is like the right hand man to Griffith at the time, who's the leader of the band of hawks. And, you know

Jacci: 02:23:29

That guy looks like an angel.

Mac: 02:23:30

Guts gets the guts oh, bro. Guts gets the best of her. Griffith is just like, alright. You know, let's square up. And if I beat you, you you work with me.

Mac: 02:23:41

If, you know, not, you're on your way. Guts feeling himself like the the mercenary who has never lost, right, loses to Mhmm. Loses to Griffith. Right? So Guts is like, fuck it.

Mac: 02:23:53

You know, I'll work for you. While working alongside Griffith, you know, Guts kinda looks at it up to him like, hey. This is a guy, somebody I want to I wanna be like, I aspire to be like, while Griffith looks at him as my perfect right hand. He's gonna help me obtain the things I want to. Because when you look at Griffith's backstory, he was like a kid on the street in the back alley, comes across that magical egg, the the bee or Behirits?

Mac: 02:24:24

Or here it's yeah. But here it's and it's one of those things where you pick it up and you kinda have a thought like, hey, want a kingdom of my own. The egg is just like bet. I can get that for you, but you're gonna owe me, right, later down the line. So he's wearing this egg around his neck, going out, got this crew.

Mac: 02:24:45

They're kind of mercenaries for hire. They go out and and do things for the highest bidder, conquering kingdoms for other people and stuff like that. Throughout their escapades, Casca, who was Griffith's right hand soldier, gets jealous a little bit of guts becoming that. They kind of butt heads for a bit, but essentially they become fond of one another. Griffith sees that.

Mac: 02:25:13

You know, he's not happy because he's like it's almost you depending on where you look at online, some people assume that Griffith kinda had a thing for guts and whatnot and was jealous that Casca was was moving in. But I forget where it was at, but at one point after they finished one battle, you know, they're being celebrated, they're being honored, they're getting, you know, they're eating the finest things, they're wearing the finest linens. Guts is just like, like Miles Morales in Spider Verse. Like, nah, I'm a do my own thing. You know, he wants to go and do his own thing so he can be looked at as an equal to Griffith rather than a follower.

Mac: 02:25:56

Right. So he starts leaving. The band of hawk shows up like, bro, you're not leaving us. He's like, bro, I swear to god I'm out. And then Griffith is just like, one v one me, bro.

Mac: 02:26:08

And if you win, you get the bounce, and then Guts beats him. Right? So Griffith doesn't like that. So this the the kingdom that they just fought for, like the king that just paid him and stuff, he has a daughter, Princess Charlotte. Griffith is like beside himself because he lost his ace, right?

Mac: 02:26:28

He's upset. Princess has shown interest in him throughout the night, right? So it's raining, Griffith shows up, he's like, Yo, Princess, you up? Right? She's like, Alright.

Mac: 02:26:42

Cool. Come in.

Jacci: 02:26:42

2AM text. You up? Yeah.

Mac: 02:26:44

So now it's he takes advantage of her for YouTube's algorithm. Right? And as he's taking advantage of her, people are aware and they go get the king. And now Griffith is, like, thrown in this dungeon. Like, they cut all his tendons and stuff.

Mac: 02:27:07

He can't move his joints. He's pretty much just malnourished, sitting in there with a helmet on his head. Like, it is the dungeon of all dungeons. Right? The bandahawks come across Guts again, and they're just like, Guts.

Mac: 02:27:19

They got our boy. And Guts is like, Not my boy, Griff. Let's go save him. So they go raid the dungeon, they save him, they're trying to escape. Don't know, they're in the wagon, they hit a bump, Griffith flies out of no, Griffith like starts trying to move and starts trying to have relations with Casca.

Mac: 02:27:40

Right? And Casca's like, Yo, what the hell is wrong with you? Like, get off of me. So he's upset. Like he's just looking I don't know what he made that move for, but I think he's trying to do something to to make Guts feel bad.

Mac: 02:27:54

Like, I think he feels bad that Guts left him, so he's trying to do something to hurt Guts because Guts hurt him. Casca's like, get off me, bro. So they're trying to get away from the kingdom. He falls out of this wagon or he's trying to drive the wagon with his like, I I forget it. It's been a while since I've seen it.

Mac: 02:28:11

He falls out, rolls into the river, and apparently, like, the egg that used to be around his neck that was taken from him, they just meet again. Right? He's in there. He picks it up. And the eclipse happens, which is the trigger for the egg to activate, and then all the god hands show up.

Mac: 02:28:31

Right? So they show up and they're just like, It's your time to pay what you owe. You wanna sacrifice something that's near and dear to you. We can make your dream come true. And his whole crew is there.

Mac: 02:28:43

The band of hawks is there. All his ride or dies. He's like, I'm a sacrifice my peoples. Right? So his army, his band of people start dying one by one in the most grotesque way.

Mac: 02:28:55

Right? And Guts is there. Guts is trying to fight all the demons and stuff that are coming. The apostles are what they're called, that are coming. And as he's fighting them off, he gets to where because he's trying to save Griffith.

Mac: 02:29:09

Like, he doesn't know Griffith is wanting this. He's like, I gotta save Griffith. By the time he gets to Griffith, he's already changed into his God Hand form, Femto, I believe. And this is the part where people are just like, Bro, this dude is wild. Yeah, Femto.

Mac: 02:29:30

As Guts gets to where Griffith is at after he's transformed, Casca is there. Griffith sees Guts there. So Griffith is like, Now I can cause him pain that he caused me. He starts taking advantage of Casca in front of Guts against her will. Guts is trying to get there.

Mac: 02:29:58

He's being held back and forced to watch this. Different positions are assumed during this. Like, it is a it is a a pretty long it is a pretty long scene, and Guts is like, I gotta get like, he tries to get there, an apostle bites his arm or some his hand? Is it his hand? And he cuts it off.

Mac: 02:30:21

It's it's he cut because yeah. Because he has, like, a a metalhead or what. He cuts that off to get after Griffith. Griffith, like, finishes the job, whatever, bounces. Casca is, like, mentally traumatized, like, to the point she doesn't have a memory.

Mac: 02:30:38

She is she can't talk. She can't do anything. Yeah. Pretty much brain dead at this point. Bounces and joins the rest of the god hands to go with the whatever the next phase of his stuff.

Mac: 02:30:51

So, I I skipped over a lot of the battles and stuff. A lot of the things that Griffith and the Bendahawks have went through to to the point where they were a family, and for the fact that he's just like, now it's time to sacrifice something. Oh, the people that I've been ride or die with the last few several years, you can have them, and they're gone like Yeah. The the part that the piece de resistance for this

Jacci: 02:31:19

Dis stance.

Mac: 02:31:20

Is later on, Casca starts getting her well, another part. So before that happened, like, Casca and Guts, they make out. Right? They figure out they like each other. They make out.

Mac: 02:31:35

Casca's Again? No. No. No. This is before Griffith sacrifices him.

Mac: 02:31:41

So they make out. They figured it, we hey. You like me? I like you too. Let's do it.

Mac: 02:31:45

Alright. We do it. Casca gets pregnant. She's with child. She is with child while Griffith is doing what he's doing.

Mac: 02:31:56

Oh. So he tates their baby. So the baby is born and Guts rejects it. So the baby is a demon baby, And Guts is like, get the so the baby they would have had made out of love between those two is now a demon baby.

Jacci: 02:32:13

Does Casca reject the baby too?

Mac: 02:32:16

Well, Casca is like

EJ: 02:32:18

you know,

Jacci: 02:32:19

like she's

EJ: 02:32:20

She's not mentally there anymore.

Jacci: 02:32:21

What happened to the baby? Ugh. Sorry. Keep going. I gotta watch the show.

Jacci: 02:32:27

Sorry. I'm so invested.

Mac: 02:32:28

But so it's a so there's a there's a part where later on in the manga, there's a a a art called the Fantasia story arc. And Casca is just regaining her mind and her memories, right, and taking steps to return to normal. And your boy swoops in with his his wings and scoops her up and takes her away. Right? And Guts is just like yeah.

Mac: 02:33:00

So

EJ: 02:33:01

so bad.

Mac: 02:33:02

He just keeps following Guts, like, can I fuck with this dude more and more? So Because

EJ: 02:33:07

yeah. He just wants to

Mac: 02:33:08

Like like, Guts is just like, Casca's, alright. You're coming back. You're starting to remember what the fuck whoop. Oh, you feeling better? Ah, let me go ahead and fuck you up again.

Mac: 02:33:21

So that's why to me, like, when I'm looking at Bondrew to Griffin, like, it's one a, one b, but I I think the dice rolled how it's supposed to roll. Like, when you watch all of the golden age and you see everything they've been through and you see the bond they all had, they are a damn And to the point where Guts leaves, but he's still so down with his crew. Like, come to him like, we help us save Griffith. Like, you're our dude.

Jacci: 02:33:48

But the whole time Griffith, whole time it didn't matter if he was always

Mac: 02:33:51

He knew whenever he got the opportunity to sacrifice something, he knew what he was gonna sacrifice, his peoples. And he did, and it

Jacci: 02:34:02

was And and Guts wasn't a part of that. Right? Because he decided to leave.

Mac: 02:34:07

No. Lied. Both of because he was there.

EJ: 02:34:10

Used to be the things

Jacci: 02:34:11

that I know he's there, but since he left, is is he included in that sacrifice still or

EJ: 02:34:15

no? Yes.

Mac: 02:34:17

Yeah. But he fought he fought them off.

Jacci: 02:34:19

Leading up to that,

EJ: 02:34:21

through the golden age and stuff, or the golden period, whatever golden age I think, you see all the little signs of Griffith He asks Guts to go and murder a little kid in it.

Mac: 02:34:38

Oh, the queen's son?

EJ: 02:34:40

Yeah. It's all for his own benefit. It's for his growth. From the beginning when he got the egg, that's like a constant subconscious feeding into him that they're gonna give him all of his make all of his dreams come true, and he just his only focus is to rule everything. He wants to become the top.

Jacci: 02:35:02

So the egg wasn't really controlling him. He just was so obsessed with what the egg could give him.

EJ: 02:35:08

Yeah.

Jacci: 02:35:09

So really it was him though that was still making the decisions. It's not like he was being subconsciously controlled.

EJ: 02:35:16

Yeah. It it's it was it was there's the stuff he said. I mean, Casca has been by his side since the beginning, dude. Like, you could tell she was enamored with him. Not so much like she wanted to be with him, she loved him out of Like, she wanted him to be her king.

EJ: 02:35:34

You know, like, I will follow this man to the end of the world. And then for him to turn around and brutalize her like that was just it's disgusting. I mean, Griffith is just the worst. Dude, he's like, straight up the worst. Know, it's like

Mac: 02:35:49

That'd be like you know, you deploy and you see some shit with your peoples, right? Like you're bonded for life. And then it's just like, if you give up some people, I can make it A, all my people I rolled with you. Yeah, take them. Like, holy fuck, bro.

Mac: 02:36:04

Like, and, and, and it, and that's the part where I'm just like, you know, you, you see some stuff, brother in arms, sister in arms, a level of respect as far as your talent on the field. Cause like he was known as like the Falcon of Light or something like that. Like he had

Jacci: 02:36:21

the most

Mac: 02:36:23

like he his ability with the sword was only second to Guts at that point.

Jacci: 02:36:28

The White Falcon.

Mac: 02:36:29

Yes. Him and Guts, hand in hand. Guts was more ruthless, like just energy. Griffith was such a tactician. He was such a tactician, like on the battlefield, his battle plans, his strategy.

Mac: 02:36:44

Was taking over fortresses that were just known to everybody as being impenetrable. He was just like, Oh, this is how we're gonna get them. We're gonna draw them out, do X, Y, Z, get the king out here, kill the king and be at it. And it was just so He was on next level tactician, but he was also no slouch with the sword. Guts was also like That's why they were both looking at each other like, This is my equal out here.

Mac: 02:37:07

That's why Griffin didn't want him to leave. Because Griffin was like, You're gonna help me gain a kingdom because that was his goal as a kid.

EJ: 02:37:14

Guts is like unparalleled strength and drive.

Mac: 02:37:19

Right.

EJ: 02:37:19

And Griffith is unparalleled strategy and focus. Yep. I mean that guy was like, it's almost like the egg gave

Mac: 02:37:27

him. They completed each other.

EJ: 02:37:28

No need to to like, I don't know, like, he could plan things out and it just always seemed to, like, even though his army wasn't as great as the other armies, his plan would always circumvent that size difference or the, you know, the defensive differences and he'd win. It was like he couldn't lose for, know, Yeah. That's, you know, it's it's exactly. They're they're they play off each other perfectly. Like like Willie said, that's a nail, you know, hitting the nail on the head.

EJ: 02:38:01

They're they're like equals. They're the only equals in the battlefield. Maybe not the exact skills set that make them equal but grip is meant meant to one

Mac: 02:38:10

where one lacks the other one picks up.

EJ: 02:38:13

Exactly. They're

Mac: 02:38:14

like, like there are battles where the other army sends out this behemoth of a motherfucking person. Yeah. Right. And Guts is the only motherfucker that has the tenacity and the brute strength to get

EJ: 02:38:27

rid this He's to go. Right. He's ready to

Mac: 02:38:31

And Griffith is not that. Like if Griffith had time to think and figure out how to take them out, cool. But in the heat of the battle, this dude's charging at Griffith, here comes Guts. He's like, I got this dude. The eclipse scene in that one is like one of the most difficult scenes to watch.

Mac: 02:38:52

Is. When you're looking at it because one, like just the, the, what's happening. And then two, you put yourself in Guts' position. Like, bro, like I get it. It's a dream.

Mac: 02:39:02

You know? Griffith didn't need to do that. He was already a god hand. He could've bounced, but he was just like, you know what? Let me fuck with this guy real quick.

EJ: 02:39:10

Vince Vendetta against Casca and Guts was just like, he couldn't stand the fact that there would be any happiness without him in

Mac: 02:39:18

it. Yeah.

Jacci: 02:39:19

Around two now.

EJ: 02:39:20

So that's crazy. Anyway Vicious. Great.

Mac: 02:39:23

But yeah. Great. So he's When

EJ: 02:39:25

I saw you put that down, I was like, Willie got got my got my favorite.

Jacci: 02:39:29

Well, like I said, when you guys put

Jacci: 02:39:30

some of your villains down, I was like,

Jacci: 02:39:32

oh, damn. I haven't seen any

Jacci: 02:39:33

of these. I'm excited. This is gonna

Jacci: 02:39:35

be interesting.

Jacci: 02:39:36

Don't know. It's like for once, like, I there's animes. Like, like, I have no idea

Mac: 02:39:40

about for

Jacci: 02:39:40

any usually at least 75, 80 percent, I'm like, I watch.

Mac: 02:39:44

But the dope thing is two of these

Jacci: 02:39:45

25%.

Mac: 02:39:46

Yeah. Two of EJ's were movies. So it's like a two hour watch and you get the whole story, you know? Yeah.

Jacci: 02:39:51

Although EJ's always got like the nineties ones that like, again, like I watched some nineties, but I never watched the, like, true nineties gems that are more adult.

Mac: 02:40:01

Right.

Jacci: 02:40:02

Because again, when I started watching anime, was eight. Yeah. And I could never get away with watching any of that on

EJ: 02:40:09

They're like like, the pick for, you know, Berserk and stuff, they're they're like the I don't know, like I said, the foundation for a lot of anime because Yeah. They were at a time when there wasn't so much popularity as far as like, Shonen Jump and stuff. You you occasionally got a movie that came out or a couple part like a series like like Berserk because Berserk's got fragments that you can catch. There wasn't like a a a constant steady flow like bleach or Naruto or anything at the time. Inuyasha's probably the closest.

EJ: 02:40:45

When you picked Inuyasha, I was like, hey, you picked the one that was about the same time as those others. That was probably like the one piece of its time because it had a 67 episodes and everyone

Jacci: 02:40:57

just Well, kinda.

Jacci: 02:40:59

Because One Piece also came out back in the nineties, so One Piece was still very prominent. But One Piece lore, when it first came out in the nineties, was not anything like it became in the February. '2 thousands is where it really started hitting. Whereas there was anime in the nineties that was very much, I think even more better than when One Piece first started.

EJ: 02:41:22

Yeah. I

Jacci: 02:41:23

don't And was great. Like, it was one of those fantasy romances that everyone I think just truly loved. But there was I still think, like, if I had to put a top 10 for nineties, like, we ever did that, like a top 10 nineties, I don't know if a Yoshua would make that top 10.

EJ: 02:41:39

I don't I I'd have a hard time putting 10 series together for the nineties that were long running to the point where they'd be in in comparison. Because, yeah, there you go. Like, Helsing

Jacci: 02:41:53

Charmelzy for sure.

EJ: 02:41:54

But none of them were Helsing wasn't nearly as long.

Jacci: 02:41:57

Oh, yeah. Vampire Hunter D. That was a good one.

EJ: 02:41:59

Yeah. It's a But

Jacci: 02:41:59

even then, when if I ever watched that, my mom is like, what are you watching, Wyatt? This is so dark. I was like Yeah.

Mac: 02:42:05

That's so violent. Turn that off. Yep.

Jacci: 02:42:08

Yeah. I I was the older sibling, so I had no other older sibling, you

Jacci: 02:42:11

know, to show me some bad shit.

Mac: 02:42:12

They're watching it.

Jacci: 02:42:13

Yeah. I I was the older sibling saying, watch this, like

Mac: 02:42:17

Yeah.

Jacci: 02:42:18

To to like my fucking Maybe

EJ: 02:42:22

Rama Half and some of the others

Jacci: 02:42:24

Yeah. But Rama so so I know we're getting off topic a little bit, but Rama Half is the anime, Just like most nineties animes, at least in America, I think, steered so far away from the manga, I don't know if I would rank those.

EJ: 02:42:42

Yeah.

Jacci: 02:42:42

But that's a discussion for a different time.

EJ: 02:42:46

Dude, but great pick, man. Great pick. I love Griffith. He's I love to hate him. Because he's so

Mac: 02:42:51

No. He's he's so fucking

Jacci: 02:42:52

He's so pretty looking too.

EJ: 02:42:54

That's that's another thing. It's like he was the evil angel, dude.

Jacci: 02:42:57

He's so I first watched when I first

Mac: 02:42:59

watched this worst. I was like, oh, it's a broad, you know, and it was like, oh, no. Yeah.

EJ: 02:43:04

Thought so too. I'm like, that's why when you're

Mac: 02:43:05

Yeah.

Jacci: 02:43:05

In some of the manga, it makes it look like it's a chick.

Mac: 02:43:08

Yeah.

EJ: 02:43:09

Well, the thing is I it's like you mentioned. He I think he was either way, he was that's why I think he did have

Mac: 02:43:17

An unhealthy attachment to Guts.

Jacci: 02:43:19

I'm about

Jacci: 02:43:19

to ask because there was there was, like, something I was reading about Guts and Griffith's complex relationship.

Mac: 02:43:26

Yeah.

Jacci: 02:43:26

And it seemed like maybe not on Guts' side, but Griffith might've also had his own fascination. Maybe even leaning towards, I think, those theories.

EJ: 02:43:35

Romantic feelings for Gut.

Jacci: 02:43:37

Yeah. Theories of I don't know about romantic, but maybe more like sexual desire too of just wanting to conquer him too. Yeah. Not so much romantic.

EJ: 02:43:48

Yeah. And he definitely didn't like when Casca and and Guts found feelings for each other. That just, it like pissed him off like worse than anything. Worse than the dungeon, dude. Worse than his treatment in the dungeon.

EJ: 02:44:01

Because he didn't wish the destruction of that castle and all those people and stuff as much as he wanted to destroy Guts and Caskets.

Mac: 02:44:08

Yep.

EJ: 02:44:09

He wanted them to suffer. And it's like dirty.

Mac: 02:44:14

And then they made us suffer with Berserk twenty sixteen. Yeah. So Oh, god. It's bad. I I just think they need to finish it with the the hand drawn stuff they did with Berserk 97 and everything would be cool.

Mac: 02:44:28

But we still have the manga. So, you know, after you read Golden Age and the the Black Swordsman arc up until when Berserk 2016.

Jacci: 02:44:36

The manga still ongoing?

Mac: 02:44:37

I don't think it is. I think I gotta check.

EJ: 02:44:40

Think it ended.

Mac: 02:44:41

Yeah. I think it ended. I don't know if they're trying to pick it back up. I I gotta check. It's one of those mangas where I think it may have I thought the creator for

Jacci: 02:44:51

Berserk. Was it the creator that died for Berserk? Or what was that? What's that anime or show that I'm thinking?

Mac: 02:44:59

Let me check.

Jacci: 02:45:04

Yeah. He he died. The creator of Berserk died 05/06/2021. It was like a traumatic thing because Berserk didn't finish. That's what it was.

Jacci: 02:45:14

Berserk wasn't done yet, I think. And he died, I thought, before it actually ended.

Mac: 02:45:20

So it's it's taking

EJ: 02:45:21

a lot of people waiting to see if the as the dark sword or the black swordsman, if he was ever gonna assume the role like the what's that what's that the dead the death knight or the the skeletal knight king or whatever his name? What was his name?

Jacci: 02:45:37

Oh. Yeah. I gotta get 2021 at age of 54 and left his ongoing series Berserk unfinished.

Mac: 02:45:46

So it it's going on, but as it's continuing, they're crediting as the ongoing work of

EJ: 02:45:54

Mhmm.

Mac: 02:45:56

Work by Quintaro Miura.

Jacci: 02:45:59

So they're trying to go with what his vision basically was with it?

Mac: 02:46:04

If he wrote it down somewhere, that's what they're doing or they're just like, I think he would've

Jacci: 02:46:08

wanted to hard. If he didn't write it down somewhere, then you're just hoping you're going

Mac: 02:46:12

I think this is what he wanted for real.

Jacci: 02:46:14

I think if you get talented people together, I think they can do the best that they can do a really good job.

EJ: 02:46:20

There's so much love for that series. I'm sure there's people out there that know it front to back that could carry on.

Jacci: 02:46:25

Yeah. I just remember reading that. I was like, dang, that sucks because I heard that show like everyone fucking like I

EJ: 02:46:30

mean, everyone loves that. It's been I mean, I know it. Everybody's ever seen it has expressed that it's kind of their He

Jacci: 02:46:38

died due to a aortic dissection? What the frig is

Mac: 02:46:44

I have no idea.

EJ: 02:46:45

That means something with his heart.

Jacci: 02:46:48

Aorta's condition with the inner layer of the aorta. I'm I'm probably saying that wrong. Sorry. Aorta, the main artery carrying blood from the heart tears causing blood to flow between layers. That that sucks.

Jacci: 02:47:01

Alright, P man. Thanks for giving this this masterpiece and number one villain, man.

EJ: 02:47:06

Number one villain for sure.

Mac: 02:47:09

It it sucks that he had to see twenty sixteen Berserk before he left though, you know? Yeah. I mean, what did you do to my Oh, man. I don't know

EJ: 02:47:18

who was in charge and gave that the thumbs up to roll but that was it's it's almost blasphemous. They

Jacci: 02:47:25

were like liquid people. Is that the one where it's like kinda CGI and it's bad and he like No.

Mac: 02:47:31

It's it's not kind of it's not kinda CGI. It's all CGI.

Jacci: 02:47:37

Yeah. Because I heard people talking shit about it and there's a scene where guts is like having sex with a monster.

Mac: 02:47:41

Like a it's like the movie Delgo, but worse. Think think of the worst computer animated movie you've seen.

Jacci: 02:47:50

Oh gosh.

Mac: 02:47:51

And it's worse.

EJ: 02:47:52

Do you remember the the dog from Toy Story? The first one?

Jacci: 02:47:57

Yeah.

EJ: 02:47:58

Had human eyeballs. That. That terrible ass CG.

Mac: 02:48:03

It was. That is good.

EJ: 02:48:04

It's mad. It's like both his legs were like this.

Mac: 02:48:09

It's just terrible. It's just the intro is dope though. The opening by nine millimeter parabellum is is dope. But after after the intro, the show starts, you just like, fuck.

EJ: 02:48:22

Even Guts movements and stuff in there, it just seems so blocky and just

Jacci: 02:48:28

Like Minecraft?

Mac: 02:48:29

Yeah. Don't Yeah. Don't watch Berserk twenty sixteen. So just just watch the Golden Age and read the manga after that, and you'll be fine. But we're going on three hours.

Jacci: 02:48:39

We are.

Mac: 02:48:40

But it was dope. Like, it that's what happens when there's, like, three months or three weeks to a month in between our shows.

Jacci: 02:48:48

Like Man.

Mac: 02:48:49

All this shit just gets built up, we're just like, so, this will probably be a two parter because, you know, we don't want anybody sitting down trying to listen to a a three hour podcast. So expect part one and part two of this. But, like I said, like, when you talk about these villains, we sit there and we debate who's on our list, and it's usually people that we pick because they they gravitate to a piece of us. There's something that they do that makes them stand out for others because we could use All Might or Boozan or, know, know, like just easy easy picks. But, you know, sitting down, taking the time to really weigh these out, solid picks across the board.

Mac: 02:49:32

Well done. Absolutely.

Jacci: 02:49:33

Can we say, I know we're going on three hours. Yes. We don't have to go into detail with our honorable mentions. Can we just say what they were and just quick sentence or so of why? Is that okay?

Mac: 02:49:44

Yes. Go ahead. Mhmm.

Jacci: 02:49:46

My first honorable mention is a quick one, but then I'll go to my actual honorable mention. When I talked about Madara, I do wanna say I think the ultimate villain for that though is actually Kaguya and Black Zetsu. Because the whole reason why Madara went on his killing spree well, not killing spree, but his whole thing is because Black Zetsu, which was designed by had him manipulate the Uchiha tablet that was incorrect saying what peace actually would be. And so Madara was like, oh, that's what I wanna do. And then ultimately, Madara was tricked at the end to then resurrect Kaguya, which I thought was crazy.

Jacci: 02:50:26

I just didn't choose them because they're kinda like spirits and entities and they didn't really like my funny one was Frieza.

Jacci: 02:50:39

Uh-huh. Because I'm sorry.

Jacci: 02:50:42

Like, I I think it's funny because, like, Frieza is just a funny character to me because Frieza just keeps coming back and it's and at this point, Frieza has become a comical character even like super for me. But also when you do think about it, Frieza is like a true villain. Like, Frieza's diabolical and fucking petty as hell and just cares about like just Goku. It becomes his like soul. I wanna be better than you.

Jacci: 02:51:05

And that's why he keeps coming back. And that's why I think Frieza is just like deserves at least some recognition.

Mac: 02:51:10

Okay. What you got, EJ? You got an honorable mention?

EJ: 02:51:16

I do. Dracula from castle Castlevania. And it's the reasoning is I've loved him as a bad guy since the original Castlevania on Game Boy and black and white little but I mean, they did an excellent job on Netflix for the Castlevania series as in showing Dracula's dark origin and then him finding something to live for and then that being taken away. And the depths of evil or devastation he was willing to wrought on everyone for that. Like, look.

EJ: 02:51:53

He found something that gave him peace, then you guys took it away and burned her as a witch. He came back with a vengeance. I mean, that the level of murder that he was unleashing with.

Mac: 02:52:05

You know the crazy part about that is, like, you have this omnipotent being who you killed his What

Jacci: 02:52:13

these words were you using?

Mac: 02:52:14

My my man shows up, and he's just like, yo. You killed my wife. I could fuck you all up, but I'm giving you a year to get out of this town.

EJ: 02:52:23

Yeah. You have one year.

Mac: 02:52:24

And he bounced and like, people are just like, who the fuck's that guy? And then they just chilled there for another year. Then and then when he comes back, he's like, yo, motherfucker's still here. Well I know. Wow.

Mac: 02:52:37

You you packing back at your feet. Why is this happening to us? Like, you had a whole fucking year to get out of there.

EJ: 02:52:45

As soon as Dracula was like, I will come back in one year. Before he finished that sentence, I'd be packing my shit and

Mac: 02:52:52

loading up the You had a whole

EJ: 02:52:55

to, like

Mac: 02:52:56

You were aware. You were aware of a vampire.

Jacci: 02:53:00

Packed up in less than three days. Like, it's okay. That night.

Mac: 02:53:05

Hey. Hey. Get the kids. We out. Yo.

Mac: 02:53:08

You live in the And you know hey.

EJ: 02:53:09

Time, man.

Mac: 02:53:10

We

EJ: 02:53:10

got, like, a basket.

Mac: 02:53:11

I give it. I give it. You know?

EJ: 02:53:14

Out of town, dude.

Mac: 02:53:15

He said a year. We'll let the kids finish this year in school, and then we'll leave. You know, like, he gave you a full

Jacci: 02:53:21

year. No.

Jacci: 02:53:22

I I gotta wait. My my daughter's getting married. Like

Mac: 02:53:26

You had a you had a whole Christmas, a whole Thanksgiving. Y'all were hanging around Thanksgiving just chopping it up. This is knowing that the clock was ticking.

EJ: 02:53:37

It literally burned his wife on the stage.

Mac: 02:53:42

And he still gave them a year. I'm a benevolent. A

Jacci: 02:53:47

year's a long time.

Mac: 02:53:48

I know.

EJ: 02:53:49

They could have been on the other side of plane.

Jacci: 02:53:50

I'm sorry. That's their fault. That is their fault.

Mac: 02:53:54

He comes back, like, I could imagine he just, like, comes back. He's like, this town better be holy fuck. They they thought

Jacci: 02:54:02

I Like, do you imagine if

Jacci: 02:54:03

you do, like, not the real part, but just do a parody? Comes back. He's like, god.

Mac: 02:54:08

It was a it was a whole And

Jacci: 02:54:11

he's like, I'm so sick of this shit.

Mac: 02:54:12

A whole face so dumb. A whole face in the fire like

EJ: 02:54:16

a I

Mac: 02:54:16

know. He he took over the fire.

EJ: 02:54:19

It was just his I told

Jacci: 02:54:20

these motherfuckers. I fucking told them. I don't know why they didn't he just said mumbling.

Mac: 02:54:24

So he told

Jacci: 02:54:25

fucking told him.

Jacci: 02:54:25

As he's mumbling, he's just destroying house.

Jacci: 02:54:27

I fucking told him. Why this

Jacci: 02:54:28

fucking weird now I got and he's just chopping heads as he's pissing mumbling. He just keeps going. Moe, he's just it's like, I'm so mad. Why did I have to do this? I thought I could come back, be peaceful, but no.

Jacci: 02:54:40

Now I gotta do

EJ: 02:54:41

And the thing is you look around

Jacci: 02:54:43

and see my hand.

EJ: 02:54:44

This place this place This is your fault. It looks it doesn't even look like a nice place to live.

Jacci: 02:54:50

You're like That's so funny.

Mac: 02:54:53

Like the town I understand. Like, if he came back and the town flourished, like they found gold or a mine and they we can't leave because look how profitable this this shit looked just as ran down and the same.

EJ: 02:55:05

Yeah.

Mac: 02:55:05

You know? And he comes back and they're just sitting there with like, oh, shit. You came back? Yes, motherfucker. I told you.

EJ: 02:55:12

I mean, the town was

Mac: 02:55:14

Now you gotta die.

EJ: 02:55:15

Sunshine since the day it was created. Bro. Yeah. It's been dark the whole and you're like

Mac: 02:55:21

that's the part that had me dying. Like, I was watching it like this man appeared in fire was like, you killed my wife. I could spaz out now, but you got a year to get out of here. And people are just like, oh God.

EJ: 02:55:35

Oh. I thought he meant right now.

Mac: 02:55:37

I mean, now that we have I mean, we don't have to leave now. Right?

Jacci: 02:55:40

Yeah. Can leave. If anyone could ever say like,

Mac: 02:55:45

who The king of procrastination.

Jacci: 02:55:47

Procrastinator to ever exist. It'd be the entire village of name x. Like, whatever that

EJ: 02:55:52

fucking village is. Upstate.

Jacci: 02:55:54

They're like, oh, shit. I thought I had more time. I swear.

EJ: 02:55:58

All year I don't know.

Mac: 02:56:00

Oh, man. I don't know. Yeah. But the minute I the minute I see a face in fire, you killed my wife. I'm mad.

EJ: 02:56:06

Church, bro.

Mac: 02:56:07

I'm out of here.

EJ: 02:56:08

In church with his face in it. And he's like, I'm gonna just kill you all in one year. Oh,

Mac: 02:56:14

shit. I thought he meant tonight. Well, I mean, we have time. What you guys getting into? Like, shit, you know?

EJ: 02:56:20

What's in a house worth on July?

Jacci: 02:56:21

Oh, man. Shit. You got a turkey? Well, you know, since before I'm about to fuck shit up because you didn't listen, let me have some of this shit. Because he he just went and cooked it, so I might as well not let it go to waste.

EJ: 02:56:31

I just finished the deck on my shithole. I gotta stay. Like I

Mac: 02:56:35

can't get rid of I can't leave now.

Jacci: 02:56:38

Hey. By the way, like, great meal, guys. You gotta die. I told you.

Mac: 02:56:43

This wasn't a leap year, Dracula? No. It wasn't. I mean, it no. He

EJ: 02:56:48

stayed. I

Jacci: 02:56:49

only have one more day.

EJ: 02:56:51

You stay true to his word though, man. Because when he comes back and he his monsters come, dude, they murder those people. Viciously. Formally. Yes.

Jacci: 02:57:01

Formally. Yes.

Mac: 02:57:03

Viciously. Oh, man. So who

EJ: 02:57:06

who did not? Honorable mention, Willie. Honorable mention.

Mac: 02:57:08

I got King Bradley from Fullmetal Alcove.

Jacci: 02:57:12

Dude, I you know, I

Jacci: 02:57:13

have two more, but I'll let you go.

Mac: 02:57:15

But he he's he was wrath. But the only reason I put him on here is, when he shows back up to the castle and they're just like, bro, you can't come to fucking here. He's like, don't make me pull the sword out of my fucking sheath, bro.

Jacci: 02:57:29

Yeah, dude.

Mac: 02:57:31

Bro, you The seed the seed with the take and the take starts going in reverse up the stairs and my man is chasing the take down.

EJ: 02:57:42

Yeah.

Jacci: 02:57:42

I was like,

Mac: 02:57:44

sir. You

EJ: 02:57:45

guys not did you forget who you're talking to?

Mac: 02:57:48

Bro, that's

EJ: 02:57:49

for real.

Mac: 02:57:49

I would bring the video up to laugh, but YouTube's gonna be like, hey, get the shit the fuck up out of here.

Jacci: 02:57:54

Yeah. Especially Fullmetal alchemist. Yeah.

Mac: 02:57:57

Check that. See, just type King Bradley versus the tank. They shoot the tank is shooting at him. He is not fucking around and he starts fucking shit up. And the dude in the tank's like, let's get out of here.

Mac: 02:58:09

They go in reverse. They're in the castle going up the stairs and like a tank is running from the dude with a sword. He's he's running after them. Like, wants to smoke. Like, he could kill everybody else.

Mac: 02:58:23

He's like, no. I want this fucking tank.

Jacci: 02:58:26

We got problems.

Mac: 02:58:29

Did you shoot a guy? Come out sometime. Now you gotta die. You know, he's chasing this shit.

Jacci: 02:58:34

Who brought this tank in the house? This is supposed to be outside. This tank this tank gotta go.

EJ: 02:58:40

The tanks is like, I ain't going back outside. You know who's outside?

Jacci: 02:58:43

I fucking told I fucking told my son not to bring this shit in the house.

Jacci: 02:58:47

It's be shit. He's gotta go. Bro,

Mac: 02:58:50

he just he just had that eye patch and a fucking sword and just destroyed the whole army. But I was thinking about father, but I'm just like, you know what?

Jacci: 02:59:01

I did too. I thought about father.

Mac: 02:59:02

You know, but he's another guy who's like, I wanna be the ultimate being. I wanna be and

EJ: 02:59:06

I'm just like,

Mac: 02:59:06

I did enough ultimate

Jacci: 02:59:07

beings. I didn't think he.

Mac: 02:59:09

I did enough people who wanted to be ultimate beings. Let me talk about the motherfucking one of the smoke.

Jacci: 02:59:14

But I

Jacci: 02:59:14

think one thing we all did not discuss, and it was mentioned in the comments, is none of us talk about Shoutuckers.

Mac: 02:59:20

Now hear me out. Villain.

Jacci: 02:59:23

There's a reason why I didn't.

Mac: 02:59:25

I wanna hear Are we talking about villain or just a Yeah. Or or a dick?

Jacci: 02:59:29

That's what, yeah. That's why I didn't bring him up.

Mac: 02:59:32

A villain or a dick. Shao Tucker's a dick.

EJ: 02:59:35

Yeah. He's more yeah. He's more of an idiot.

Jacci: 02:59:38

Shoutucker's a piece of shit. He's a pea depending which Fullmetal Alchemist you watched, he was either a dick for two episodes or six. It depends on which one you watch. You either you either were six or got it real quick. So

EJ: 02:59:52

I mean, being unlikable and being like a dick doesn't necessarily equate to villain. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Jacci: 02:59:58

Yeah. Because also, like, he wasn't a villain to everybody. He was just a piece of shit, and then he got arrested, and that was it. And then he what? He ended up killing himself or something or dying?

Jacci: 03:00:07

Oh, he got killed. He got murdered.

EJ: 03:00:09

Yeah. I was really wrestling with Ryuk, man. I was gonna bring up Ryuk from Death Note because if you

Mac: 03:00:14

Oh, Ryuk. Even even Even one. Even light. Like, either one.

EJ: 03:00:20

Light and shit on him, dude.

Jacci: 03:00:23

Because Yeah. But yeah.

EJ: 03:00:24

Dropped that shit too light on the first day, and he's like, he knew in the end what the fuck was gonna happen, but he waits through the whole thing just enjoying apples and watching people die. Acting like he does bored. Oh. Looks good.

Jacci: 03:00:38

He's bored.

EJ: 03:00:41

Killing that many people out of boredom is just fucking brutal.

Mac: 03:00:43

This dude knew a whole a whole other Shinigami was gonna die. Yeah. And he he was

EJ: 03:00:49

a florist. He was all florist. He was like,

Mac: 03:00:51

yeah. Damn.

Jacci: 03:00:53

Damn. You really did As long as I get that one. But then but here's the thing with Ryuk. Now what? You just gonna accidentally drop it again?

Mac: 03:01:03

Yeah. Go ahead. Why not?

Jacci: 03:01:05

It doesn't work.

Jacci: 03:01:06

Let me see if

Jacci: 03:01:07

I can find another light.

EJ: 03:01:08

Can go somewhere else in the world and drop it. You know, he could drop it to like a Girl,

Mac: 03:01:11

human are completely There is not one there is not one human.

Jacci: 03:01:15

But you can kill a Shinigami by destroying the death note. Right?

Mac: 03:01:20

But you're not gonna do that because you'll lose your power over killing whoever you want. That's the human psyche.

EJ: 03:01:26

Like Yeah.

Mac: 03:01:27

Ryuk knew no mortal human is gonna resist the power to get rid of whoever you wanted just by writing their name. Yeah. Like, nobody's that noble.

EJ: 03:01:41

Yeah. He he he had no doubt in his mind. Even before he dropped the death note, he had no doubt that even though light was all, you know, prim and proper and Well,

Jacci: 03:01:54

even then, and when light surprised him as many times, he he still was like, yeah. It doesn't matter. You're dying at the end.

EJ: 03:02:00

That's what I mean. I don't think Ryuk was ever really surprised. It was a game to him to keep to to Yeah. Pump up Light's ego.

Jacci: 03:02:09

But the only reason why I did not pick Ryuk, and you can let me know if you think differently, is because he is a Shinigami of death and that's just his role. So I didn't think of him as a villain only because he you knew even at the beginning what he was There was no

Mac: 03:02:30

It's what I'm hearing.

Jacci: 03:02:30

Eyes or anything. If anything, you could you can try and talk about Light being. Because maybe he was an anti here initially, and then Light basically became a villain at the end.

EJ: 03:02:41

Light was an anti hero, and then he became corrupted by

Jacci: 03:02:43

his power.

EJ: 03:02:44

Because I mean, you gotta think, Ryuk's evilness is the fact that none of those people were meant to die. See, as a Shinigami, his job is to take those, like, in in a balance. It's supposed to be part of the world's function. Yeah. Oh, Yeah.

EJ: 03:02:59

Shinigami is not supposed to die, but he did. All those people that Light killed were not part of the plan. And Ryuk was okay with it because it was entertaining.

Jacci: 03:03:09

Yeah. I always loved when, like, Light would go, like, go ham, and then you see Ryuk in the background, his just, like, smile in his eyes because he's like, this is so much fun. This is so cool.

Mac: 03:03:19

Like, when writing that death note with so much passion, that one scene where he's writing so hard and he goes like this and he, like, slides out of the chair, like, feet back behind us. I'm like, bro, let me see that signature. Like, who the fuck are you trying to like, how bad do you hate that person? You're like, this motherfucker, he gotta go.

Jacci: 03:03:42

This ugly, fugly slut.

Mac: 03:03:47

Ryuk's just like, bro, that John Hancock is serious. Like, the fancier the name, the more drastic the death

Jacci: 03:03:56

or something. That that is the, like, back in the day evil burn book of mean girls, except it is just more diabolical.

Mac: 03:04:04

Oh, God, man. That's wild. I, bro, I had a good time tonight. This

Jacci: 03:04:11

was fun. I like this change of pace. This is different. Talking about villains. This is sick.

Mac: 03:04:16

I like it.

Jacci: 03:04:16

So much fun.

Mac: 03:04:17

I like it. But, yeah, so we'll go ahead and wrap it up. Episode 14, top three villains across the board and some fun little honorable mentions towards the end. If you're watching, throw your top three down there in the comments. I know we had some people in here.

Mac: 03:04:34

Shout out to Jin, CJ, Black, all the rest of the crew who tapped in with us live tonight. And next episode, we'll let you know what it is. Like, you know, we're all busy. We talked about it at the beginning of the show. And we'll let you know when the the next episode is and what the topic is so you can go ahead and prep as well.

Mac: 03:04:50

But unless you guys have anything else to add no? Nope. Go. Nah. Alright.

Mac: 03:05:00

As always, I'm the homie Mac, AKA your boy, as always joined by my man, EJ, and book in by the fabulous Jackie. And this has been Eat The Cake Anime, and we'll catch you guys on the next time. In the meantime, check out some anime and see you later. Peace.